Jill Stein is Seriously Dangerous

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Re: Jill Stein is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:09 am

I don't think it's fear, Novem5er, but understanding the importance of what is best for our future.

I've never been a Hillary fan and felt her a carpetbagger after she announced her candidacy for Senator of New York. But she is the better candidate, flawed as she is. But I won't be voting for her; I'll be voting for Stein. And that's because I want to help grow a third party that is already on our NYS ballot, but not yet on other states' ballots

But if I lived in a red state or one of those that could go either way, I would vote for Clinton over Trump, knowing full well her many flaws, because of the importance of the Supreme Court appointments our next administration will promote.
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Re: Jill Stein is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Luther Blissett » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:37 pm

I will say that the hypnosis this election season is incredibly strong. Not only from the media, but from my peers as well.
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Re: Jill Stein is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Luther Blissett » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:56 pm

This essay by Hedges is pretty great. Sums up my feelings fairly well.

http://m.truthdig.com/report/item/defyi ... r_20161106
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Re: Jill Stein is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Novem5er » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:21 pm

Iamwhomiam » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:09 am wrote:I don't think it's fear, Novem5er, but understanding the importance of what is best for our future.

I've never been a Hillary fan and felt her a carpetbagger after she announced her candidacy for Senator of New York. But she is the better candidate, flawed as she is. But I won't be voting for her; I'll be voting for Stein. And that's because I want to help grow a third party that is already on our NYS ballot, but not yet on other states' ballots

But if I lived in a red state or one of those that could go either way, I would vote for Clinton over Trump, knowing full well her many flaws, because of the importance of the Supreme Court appointments our next administration will promote.


I think your comments can apply to many people. I know many Democrat friends and family who would have voted for Hillary no matter who was the opposition on the GOP side. They agree with the Democratic platform, have always voted Democrat, and thus would gladly do so in 2016, whether it was Hillary or Bernie.

I do, however, know a lot of people who don't like Hillary at all and are sick of the DNC. These are people who WANT to vote Green Party or even for Gary Johnson, but they also detest Donald Trump so much that they will vote Hillary to un-elect Trump. This is the fear that I'm seeing. So really, as much as I've been defending Donald Trump supporters in other threads (for really towing the party line, rather than voting for Trump specifically), I think a lot of Hillary supports honestly DO support the Democratic vision and the candidate is merely the figurehead of the platform. Good points, and thanks for reminding me of that. :thumbsup
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Re: Jill Stein is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:34 pm

Might sound hypocritical, but that is how I feel as well. Thanks for posting it, Luther. His first paragraph describes me and my peer group quite well.
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Re: Jill Stein is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:46 pm

I still believe the job of getting the Greens to 5% should take place in uncontested states. Once national, their membership will grow greatly, I believe. This election will put them over their target.

But we need more Greens elected locally between now and 2020 to help give their platform more recognition and clout.
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Re: Jill Stein is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Novem5er » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:51 pm

Do Greens need 5% in a state? Or 5% across the nation?

In Florida in 2012, Jill Stein and the Greens only got 0.11% of the vote . . . 1/11 of 1% . . . pretty abysmal. The Green party suffers here now because ever remember how their votes for Nadar were blamed for G.W. Bush stealing the election, which we all know is a lie. Gore would have won if the courts hadn't interceded, but still it makes people VERY hesitant to even say the word Green in public.
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Re: Jill Stein is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:03 am

5% of the national vote.

I was one of those who condemned Nader. But my issue with him is more personal. It was long ago, when we were young. It has to do with him and me and a DC elevator ride. Nobody needs to know the sordid details of what occurred during that ride. Just that it forever changed my opinion of him.
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Re: Jill Stein is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:02 am

Rory » 14 Oct 2016 00:07 wrote:Appologist eh. Like $hillary for Bill - has Jill threatened Trump's victims, lied about and smeared their reputations, or defended child rapists and attacked children victims?


If by "defended child rapists" you mean was a public defender and did her duty as a public defender to give everyone a chance at a decent defense against charges in an open court, to the best of her ability, decades ago then get a grip mate. If you are a defense lawyer then your job is to defend the innocent because everyone is, well should be innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt in an open court of law.

Without people legally defending alleged child rapists in open court we lose one of the few fucken things keeping the wolves from the door.

It may not be much but it is something that we have an ideal that demands all accused criminals have access to a public defender. They may be shit, underfunded and not have enough time or practitioners to do the job (in australia) or non existant in other places. If we all took it seriously a lot less innocent people would be convicted.

If you don't think someone accused of raping a child shouldn't get the best defense available why would you even vote?
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Re: Jill Stein is Seriously Dangerous

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:43 am

The inability to make distinctions is a form of derangement.

90% of the attacks on Clinton are bullshit. Or worse than bullshit. Basically misogyny, hatred of high culture, and just sheer personalized hatred, such as the stuff relating to her activity as a defense lawyer. Defense lawyers have the job of defending terrible people. If they didn't do that, we would live in a (incomparably worse) tyranny (than we already do).

The other 10% of the attacks are thus obscured, and they are far more serious. We are talking about the security of e-mail servers, and not the content of the e-mails (unless they're about Marina Abramovic, or some other right-wing Culture War obsession). The real and very serious crimes of Hillary Clinton are crimes of state. They are collaborative, class crimes. They are power elite crimes. A whole apparatus of control is incriminated, one that includes the Republicans and the ruling class and the billionaires. One that includes the former Clinton ally, the Kayfabe Hitler, of course. That is why we don't want to talk about Libya, we want to talk about "Benghazi." Jesus fucking Christ.
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Re: Jill Stein is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Morty » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:55 am

I posted this on the Hillary thread, but there were no takers, maybe because the pages were flipping over quicky back then. Any takers?:

Morty » Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:00 pm wrote:

Recent Alex Jones interview. (40 minutes. Start at 3:50 and 18:50 if you're in a hurry. And can anybody tell me if what Jones and the lawyer are saying about the underwear fits with what Hillary is saying about the underwear at 25:50?)
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Re: Jill Stein is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:48 am

Iamwhomiam » 14 Oct 2016 08:39 wrote:
coffin_dodger » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:43 pm wrote:
What other ideals are we talking about?


The system you are immersed in is powered by domination, heirarchy, money, the constant promotion of self-gratification and a dog eat dog mentality. The majority of people, whilst uncomfortable with the means required to sustain this status quo, balk at actually changing it. Changing means less.

The Left needs to devise a plan for super-abundancy for all.


Perhaps you'll disagree, but we are living in the most peaceful times known from history. though wars rage on. According to history, every prior social system devised has been "powered by domination, heirarchy, money, the constant promotion of self-gratification and a dog eat dog mentality."

You will never see anything resembling what we today call the "Left" "devise a plan for super-abundancy." WTF? That is exactly the system we now have in place that is the cause of conflict and our changing climate. Whatsamattawidyou?

The Left and all sane people would be happy to have clean water to drink and bathe,food enough to meet their nutritional needs, shelter from the weather, education for their children and an occupation - note I did not say Job.

Wanting more would be Right of where Left ends.


That's not wholly true.

You need more than that to make life worth living. Music, art, sport, stories and play ... but none of that stuff needs to be environmentally destructive.
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Re: Jill Stein is Seriously Dangerous

Postby backtoiam » Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:00 am

Morty

I'm very familiar with this case. I'm familiar with a LOT of things surrounding these people. I should be, I grew up about 45 miles from where Bi*ll was from. Most of the people that I KNEW that were connected to these people are people I 'knew.' I don't know em anymore because they no longer are alive. During the Me*na days people were dropping like flies, one after another. But those were 'hot' days during ir*an cont*ra. I only lived a few blocks from Bu*zz Sawy*er when his plane nose dived. The official story was that he got shot down. Not true. He was over loaded with too much coca*ine in his plane. He tried to take off and the plane got squirrely, rolled over, and he hit the deck in a ball of flames. I only have one friend left that used to fly for that operation. He is still alive.

Anyway, this little girl got beaten and raped out of her mind, body, soul, and humanity. She was never the same. The guy that raped this girl almost killed this girl. She was only in about the 5th grade, or so. He beat her to a pulp and raped the hell out of her, damn near left her for dead. Brain damaged type of beating. They kicked her, slung her around, beat her, it was terrible. It was obvious too.

Hill knew it too. Bitch. Anyway... prosecutor (big dog) talked her into getting this fucking psychopath off the hook and she did it because she wanted to advance her career. Somebody from above wanted to use the psycho for further duties and Hill made it happen. They wanted to use this psycho to go do some manchurian shit because if they get him off they own him right? Yep. Anyway, she got in touch with one of these "expert" witnesses in the medical field that testifies in court for money. She had the evidence sent to him. (the panties with the DNA) He cut all the material off of the panties that had DNA evidence on it in the trash can. He said the test was "inconclusive" and sent the panties back, with a big fucking hole in them. Case closed.

Dude walked. This woman got fucked in more ways than one. Folks, Hill ain't NEVER been right in the head. Can you say Saul Alinsky? Google it. Saul Alinsky's rules.

This is Hillary's mentor. She grew up with a bad spoon in her mouth. Saul trained Hillary when she was in college, personally, face to face.

Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals

Here is the complete list from Alinsky.

* RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.)

* RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don’t address the “real” issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)

* RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.” Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

* RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity’s very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)

* RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)

* RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid “un-fun” activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.)

* RULE 7: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.” Don’t become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.)

* RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)

* RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists’ minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.)

* RULE 10: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management’s wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.)

* RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)

* RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)



She stinks too. People used to say she "smelled like an old car." I guess it got worse.

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Re: Jill Stein is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:37 am

You are living proof of the falseness of your sigline.
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Re: Jill Stein is Seriously Dangerous

Postby Novem5er » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:49 am

Iamwhomiam » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:03 am wrote:5% of the national vote.

I was one of those who condemned Nader. But my issue with him is more personal. It was long ago, when we were young. It has to do with him and me and a DC elevator ride. Nobody needs to know the sordid details of what occurred during that ride. Just that it forever changed my opinion of him.


Sounds like quite a story, but I respect you desire not to go into details!
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