What's Happening? It? (TRIGGERS UPON TRIGGERS)

[slomo]

So we can't have a conversation about this? What led you to come to embrace the MRA ideology?

FFS

>>> "It's a Man's World" thread.

To be fair, both of us are responsible. I agree it belongs in another thread.

Except for one aspect I'd like to point out: while we're extolling the virtues of spirituality and integration, I think it's good exercise to remember (when we can, as hard as it is) to approach others with an open heart. This is especially difficult (and I'm not as good at it as I'd like to be) when we disagree with them vehemently.

As for spiritual vs. physical assistance (Luther's point), I do think it is necessary to ease physical pain when we can, especially on a local level. But I have no illusions that these are anything other than acts of kindness and treatment of the symptoms of deep social ills. Our problem is ultimately of a spiritual nature: nothing will change systematically until we as human beings are transformed spiritually, somehow.

[Luther Blissett]

So we can't have a conversation about this? What led you to come to embrace the MRA ideology?

FFS

>>> "It's a Man's World" thread.

To be fair, both of us are responsible. I agree it belongs in another thread.

Except for one aspect I'd like to point out: while we're extolling the virtues of spirituality and integration, I think it's good exercise to remember (when we can, as hard as it is) to approach others with an open heart. This is especially difficult (and I'm not as good at it as I'd like to be) when we disagree with them vehemently.

As for spiritual vs. physical assistance (Luther's point), I do think it is necessary to ease physical pain when we can, especially on a local level. But I have no illusions that these are anything other than acts of kindness and treatment of the symptoms of deep social ills. Our problem is ultimately of a spiritual nature: nothing will change systematically until we as human beings are transformed spiritually, somehow.

I have also seen people experience deep spiritual awakenings through organizing and service. These aren't slight superficial changes that can be simply washed away, and in turn makes them better for continued transformative social justice work.

However, I'm the one who is always expecting that a mass paradigm shift is right around the corner.

[Project Willow]

@PW: I appreciate your "concern" but you have absolutely zero idea about what internal work I may or may not have done; you can answer that you have your impression based on reading my posts at RI, to which I can say (honestly) the same about you, that my impression is exactly the same of you, based on your posts.

You have identified yourself as a survivor but with the qualification that your experiences remain “nebulous”. Given that scenario, I am just repeating to you what is, in my circles anyway, conventional wisdom.

Of late, we have a new raft of survivors emerging into full public view who have not done the work and are spreading disinformation and triggering, not bad feelings, but destructive programming. When it comes to MC, externalizing can have harmful consequences that work directly at odds of intent, for both author and audience. For a survivor to step into the public arena unaware of the full extent of their history is to play with fire while denying they even have matches.

But imagine if I were to tell you to do the internal work for the sake of everyone here?

I’d thank you for the reminder. I know for myself that I can’t be certain whether I am still contributing to the whole cycle of destructiveness, however subtly or overtly, until I've done enough work to step outside of it. It’s not just my freedom, my psyche, my health at stake, but the well being of others who cross my path when I’m operating from controlled states. If this possibility doesn't apply to you or I have misread your words, then by all means disregard what I've said.

[guruilla]

You have identified yourself as a survivor but with the qualification that your experiences remain “nebulous”. Given that scenario, I am just repeating to you what is, in my circles anyway, conventional wisdom.

OK. I didn't know you were equating inner work with remembering specific events. That's what I refer to as nebulous. I am not yet convinced that actual remembering is essential to integrating, though it may well be.

My own guard against any unforeseen & undesired consequences of my public explorations and disclosures is transparency and honesty; that's the only one I know of. I gauge also by people's responses; I have had many positive responses from other survivors and have ongoing dialogues with a few of them; besides the occasional emotional entanglement & some frayed nerve endings (unavoidable), I've had no negative responses, as yet.

I consider what I do first & foremost to be self-examination/self-expressions; only secondarily, or tertiarily, research/information. Hope that clarifies a bit. Maybe you could think of my blog posts & podcasts as the equivalent of your artwork, with words in lieu of images?

[Cordelia]

Slomo, I'm very grateful for your classy graciousness & your consideration for others.

Full statement made by James Alefantis regarding gun incident (which, along with reminder of 'conspiracy theories', is getting a lot of media attention in Washington environs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EyzqskdmMI

There's def. something very sinister about this unfolding drama, but I too continue to be skeptical about 'Pizzagate'. It's really a stretch for me to imagine how CPP will stay in business; not only because of any decrease in patronage for them, but pressure from other retail business owners--who must be very nervous and pissed-- during the holiday season in their trendy neighborhood. (I wonder how DC police would have responded to Sunday's event had it occurred in wards east of the Anacostia River.)

[guruilla]

Someone even had him repeat the part condemning conspiracy theorists for spreading "fake news" & so causing this terrible event (in which apparently no shot was fired). That's you & me, folks.

[Luther Blissett]

Someone even had him repeat the part condemning conspiracy theorists for spreading "fake news" & so causing this terrible event (in which apparently no shot was fired). That's you & me, folks.

Similar to how there are no victims and no grieving parents coming forward saying they used to take Timmy to play Ping Pong before Ping Pong took Timmy?

[guruilla]

That seems like a silly &/or disingenous comment to me; no one has claimed that children are being abducted from parents at CPP. Check your ideology at the door, brother. [comment edited for snark factor]

[seemslikeadream]

‘Pizzagate’ Conspiracy Theory Leads to Shots Fired in Pizzeria
https://munchies.vice.com/en/articles/p ... n-pizzeria

[Luther Blissett]

That seems like a silly &/or disingenous comment to me; no one has claimed that children are being abducted from parents at CPP. Check your ideology at the door, brother. [comment edited for snark factor]

Yes, there are no claims because the entire thing was invented whole cloth, not from listening to survivor's accounts or claims of victims. My ideology is to listen to survivors' accounts, what is yours?

[guruilla]

That seems like a silly &/or disingenous comment to me; no one has claimed that children are being abducted from parents at CPP. Check your ideology at the door, brother. [comment edited for snark factor]

Yes, there are no claims because the entire thing was invented whole cloth, not from listening to survivor's accounts or claims of victims. My ideology is to listen to survivors' accounts, what is yours?

Luther, you can't just make statement like "the entire thing was invented whole cloth" without giving something to back that up.

The notion that there is no crime without survivor testimony is one that serves the interests primarily of child abusers. WHAT ABOUT CHILDREN WHO ARE ABUSED WHEN THEY ARE PRE-VERBAL, for the love of God? And what if you add to that the fact, or at least the strong possibility, that many victims of child sex trafficking & ritual abuse do not live to tell the tale and their bodies are never found? Or that a vast percentage of those who do live to tell the tale, don't? Ever?

Things came to light in the UK about Jimmy Savile when one person came forward and it started a chain reaction. That was decades after the event in question. WTF are you even talking about??

Look at the massive amounts of evidence linked to or cited on this thread that Pizzagate was NOT created whole cloth, that it ties into any number of actual, hard leads. Add to that the fact that even the "circumstantial" stuff is, by any caring human standard, profoundly damning. Imagine if I were to make jokes about pedophilia or post suggestive pictures of people's kids with insinuating sexual remarks about them? Jeeze Louise: How long do you think I'd last at this forum?!!

I am puzzled as to where did this faux-"toleration"-standard emerged from, that people like Alefantis can act in a manner that is so blatantly sexually dodgy and somehow it's OK because... because what? He's a democrat? Gay? An artist? A restaurant owner? I don't even know what the rationale is, to be frank; apparently it's simply because he hasn't been proven to be a pedophile so any indications he might be involved in pedophilia ~ including solid leads that have nothing at all to do with his sick-ass Instagram account ~ should just be ignored?

But why? Because you've been ideologically hoodwinked to believe that the whole Pizzagate thing was invented whole cloth by right-wing Trumpites to smear Hillary? So then it doesn't matter if there are solid leads to follow, you can just keep crying "Fake news" along with SLAD and the rest of the puppet brigade that have, miraculously, become mouthpieces for MSM almost overnight, I guess out of unbridled terror that they might get pulled into a Mass Shooting Event (in which, pls note, no shots were fired)? Or worse, be associated with Alex Jones?

I'm sorry about the histrionics; I guess it's because I am truly horrified, especially considering that, on top of all this, you have the gall to talk to me about social justice. All I can say to that is, with apologies for the snark coz I know it doesn't help, thank God abused children don't have to wait around for you to get yr shit together.

Truly, man. Just WOW.

[Joe Hillshoist]

I've read and listened to numerous victims of SRA throughout the years and almost all of them said one of the hardest things to accept was that no one believed them. Recently, I've come to know someone who was a victim of sexual abuse by her father--now deceased, who was a high ranking military figure and a nominal Christian--and at times, his "friends". She never mentioned Satan or SRA, and I would never bring it up but I did tell her that her description of the abuse sounds almost ritualistic and she agreed. Now, I'm not saying she's a victim of SRA; I don't know. But, here's the thing, she hates her mother more than her father because her mother didn't believe her and did nothing to stop her father.

My point is if everyone keeps quiet in fear of triggering victims, and consequently no one believes SRA even exists, the only people who pay the price are the victims who have no one to turn, which, in my humble opinion, compounds their trauma that much more.

Everyone I've ever known who was sexually abused as a child either by "lone perps" or as part of what seem to be networks say that when they did tell someone no one believed them. I've never met a survivor of abuse who didn't say this.

If my kids ever suggest anything like that has happened to them I'm listening to what they say no matter what the consequences.

[Joe Hillshoist]

And then, as now, I sincerely haven't seen any behaviour that I'm sure is malicious, except on the part of Socrates. And that weirdo who tried convincing Joe Hillshoist that his saliva ducts were evidence that he's been lobotomised, ha. I still don't think I properly know what an ARG is. I don't spend all that much time on the internet though.

I'd forgotten about that. I'd never examined my mouth that closely before. And the first time I saw the ducts there I thought "thats exactly what that osr said would be there." There was a moment of spine tingling wtf before I thought "that can't be right". Like the night I saw a zombie walking down the road.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Someone even had him repeat the part condemning conspiracy theorists for spreading "fake news" & so causing this terrible event (in which apparently no shot was fired). That's you & me, folks.

Its you not me.

(btw thats a friendly comment not an angry one.)

[Luther Blissett]

The moment a survivor or a parent comes forward with testimony, I will revise my statement and listen to their accounts. It's not going to happen, though, because I watched how this all unfolded, watched each of the first twenty or so pieces of fake evidence get dismantled. This isn't how investigations into real pedophile rings get started.

I am against pizzagate because it does irreversible damage to current and future (and frankly, historical) survivors of real organized abuse. "Oh, like that thing started on 4chan by those people with martyrdom complexes who took from real survivors?" I've even seen the comparison already made to that brief flash of news about the pedo ring recently uncovered.

The mechanism by which children are abducted through Comet Ping Pong has never explained to me, because it cannot be explained, because it has never happened. All that as happened here is setting research and activism and survivors' rights back.