Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy attack

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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:32 pm

Suspected this, possible that. Hard-hitting! Their master's voice. Imagine these or older "investigative" media had shown 1/2 as much interest in exposes in the aftermath of 9/11.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby Elvis » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:01 pm

JackRiddler » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:32 pm wrote:Suspected this, possible that. Hard-hitting!

They have a conspiracy theory, right? (Ask yourself if your state or local prosecutor would go forward with this sketchy evidence.)


Their master's voice. Imagine these or older "investigative" media had shown 1/2 as much interest in exposes in the aftermath of 9/11.

And with 9/11, evidence contradicting the official narrative could be found in every aspect, but few looked and none dared call it conspiracy. There are parallels with the Skripal affair, not least the possible motives, and media treatment.


Seymour Hersh has thrown doubt on the theory that the Kremlin was behind the Skripal attack, suggesting that the double agent had been briefing British intelligence on ‘Russian organized crime.’

In an interview published in the Independent following the publication of his memoir ‘Reporter,’ Hersh outline his doubts, stating: “The story of Novichok poisoning has not held up very well. [Skripal] was most likely talking to British intelligence services about Russian organized crime.”

Pulitzer-prize winning Hersh, renowned for his investigative work, has previously taken aim at the British government’s narrative that the Russian state is ‘culpable’ for the poisonings.

“There’s bias all the time, this country’s riddled with bias, there’s a great dislike of Russia here, an instinctive dislike,” he said in an interview with BBC Radio 4.

“You saw that mess you had in March, the two Russians that were allegedly killed by nerve gas, which is essentially impossible,” he continued, referring to the poisoning of ex-Soviet double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury.

“If you kill them, you kill half the city with nerve gas,” he added, before saying that interest in reporting on the story has “dwindled away.”

“There’s something wrong with the story,” he added.

https://www.rt.com/uk/434755-skripal-sa ... fia-hersh/


Skripal Sr.'s recent work with UK authorities suggest that a likelier suspect is whatever organized crime figures they were investigating and/or were ahem involved with.

I've read that Skripal also had regular contact with and/or did cybersecurity work for the Russian embassy, with the knowledge and consent of the British. If true, that really opens up the field, with British intelligence providing appropriate breadcrumbs to stoke Cold War 2.0, Crimea payback etc.

Oliver North would call it "a neat idea."


All assuming it wasn't the fish. :rofl2 Recovery seemed awfully long for seafood poisoning, but I still imagine the typically speculative headlines:

"Did Russian Company Linked to Putin Sell Bad Fish To Salisbury Eatery?"
"Frankly, I don't think it's a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous."
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby Grizzly » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:21 am

"Did Russian Company Linked to Putin Sell Bad Fish To Salisbury Eatery?"

That's sooo boring though...
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby Grizzly » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:45 am

Regardless of what one may thing about where this particular post comes from, I think it as well as the comments are sobering...
Christopher Steele, FBI's Confidential Human Source by Publius Tacitus
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2018/08/christopher-steele-fbis-confidential-human-source-by-publius-tacitus.html
but to each their own...
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:42 am

my kingdom for the off topic police....where were you in this thread?


just for the record

some of the off topic replies in my thread


Grizzly » Tue May 01, 2018 5:04 pm wrote:Wonder how long before the RussiaTrump threads start falling off of RI?







alloneword » Wed May 02, 2018 4:29 pm wrote:
Now, in a proper spy novel, 'Antonio Alvares de Idalgo' would be an anagram of something devilishly clever - unfortunately, I can't be arsed to try to work out what. :shrug:


Rory » Wed May 02, 2018 4:37 pm wrote:I've kept up to date with events so far as they're being reported. Craig Murray was funny when he said this about Double Oh Luke

Harding was the only resident British journalist, to my knowledge, whose visa the Russians under Putin have refused to renew. They suspected he is actually an MI6 officer, although he is not. :lol2: emoticons mine


It's all such transparent horseshit they're trying to feed us


streeb » Wed May 02, 2018 7:32 pm wrote:Honestly, I think Luke Harding isn't smart enough for full-on MI6 employment, but he's made himself useful up to a point, like a very eager (unpaid) intern.


streeb » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:25 pm wrote:
I must say that today NPR and BBC both let guests/correspondents actually suggest that ISIS might have deployed chlorine so Assad could be blamed for a "gas attack,"


Maybe wise professional insurance against the greater-than-average public failure of this seriously hinky, globe threatening narrative? Even anecdotally, seems to me people are a lot more suspicious about it than usual.


mentalgongfu2 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:39 pm wrote:
RocketMan » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:40 am wrote:Thanks McCruiskeen for still trying at least. This board has a scary liberal-warmonger bent these days. Sad!

Out with the woo, in with the Realpolitik.


This board also has a scary amount of people parroting Trump's style of Twitter-speak these days. I'm surprised no one has a Pepe avatar yet.


MacCruiskeen » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:19 pm wrote:I think it was because Rocket Man wrote "Sad!"


JackRiddler » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:40 pm wrote:I remember a conversation complaining about this in the car on the way to Washington DC for the Women's March (yeah that's right, no retreat no apologies motherfuckers) on January 21, 2018. Basically, how this media spectacle-abetted monster had invaded ordinary trivial speech to such a thorough, omipresent extent. Among many examples, you could no longer say "Sad!" (or hear someone else saying it) without it bringing up the association, presumably for the next generation (assuming we're still around, etc.). We're past the event horizon and there's no damn way to avoid universal trumpification.




Rory » Fri May 04, 2018 2:46 pm wrote:
You put me on ignore. Yet here you are. It's a head scratcher. How can this be???


JackRiddler » Sun May 06, 2018 4:17 pm wrote:The copy-paste of aggressively wrong corporate media headlines as RI thread titles instead of bothering to use proper subject headings is another one of the bad posting practices that give such a displeasing and misleading aesthetic to the board, but those who do it are stubborn about not understanding this. Of course the title here should be something neutral like "Skripal Affair." It is nothing personal to point this out and should not be taken that way.


Elvis » Sun May 06, 2018 8:16 pm wrote:Good thread but yeah, the headline title always struck me as presuming an unproven conclusion.


Iamwhomiam » Sun May 06, 2018 8:28 pm wrote:A great many of our thread headlines presume unproven conclusions, but I do think a change of title would be appropriate. If it turns out to be proven they were poisoned, and were not ill from food poisoning, the present thread title could then be reinstituted.


Belligerent Savant » Sun May 06, 2018 8:40 pm wrote:
Iamwhomiam » Sun May 06, 2018 2:52 pm wrote:
Rory » Fri May 04, 2018 3:38 pm

By the way - I also don't know how you can see the posts of someone you put on ignore. very ostentatiously, and self righteously. But there's another mystery for another thread.


Perhaps you could discuss this matter with Belligerent Savage; he seems to know how it's done: http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?p=656956#p656956


Can a member take someone off ignore? IF yes, how would you know? Can a member view this forum and ALL of its contents when NOT logged in?

Will await your response so that we can put this insipid query to rest.


Iamwhomiam » Sun May 06, 2018 9:03 pm wrote:If you're asking me, Belligerent Savant, I have no idea. I've never felt the need to apply an external filter to censor my reading. As I wrote to Rory, you seem to know how it's done. Discuss it with him.

I seem to have been just fine, ignoring almost all of AD's contributions because most are of no interest to me at all. As you know, my son was killed by someone with extremist views.

I'm far more concerned with dangers facing my immediate family, like micro-plastics in our municipal water supplies, than I am of any radical's personal agenda. It would be a mistake to call AD a radical, either, without knowing him personally.


Elvis » Sun May 06, 2018 9:12 pm wrote:
Any other title would be a display of bias.


but but but... the existing title itself displays bias, that of a premature conclusion.

"The Skripal Affair" is pretty neutral.


Belligerent Savant » Sun May 06, 2018 9:28 pm wrote:
Iamwhomiam » Sun May 06, 2018 9:03 pm wrote:If you're asking me, Belligerent Savant, I have no idea. I've never felt the need to apply an external filter to censor my reading. As I wrote to Rory, you seem to know how it's done. Discuss it with him.

I seem to have been just fine, ignoring almost all of AD's contributions because most are of no interest to me at all. As you know, my son was killed by someone with extremist views.

I'm far more concerned with dangers facing my immediate family, like micro-plastics in our municipal water supplies, than I am of any radical's personal agenda. It would be a mistake to call AD a radical, either, without knowing him personally.



Iam: I understand your position, and agree. Immediate family concerns are absolutely important, more so than whatever words are typed in an f'ing forum.

Edited to add: Yours was a tragic, senseless loss, and as a father, I can only begin to imagine the pain it has caused you (and continues to cause you).

However, with respect to the content posted here:

I never called AD a 'radical'. I have stated, however, that he spreads questionable material here -- some of which is straight-up pro-imperialist propaganda -- for years, and doesn't even have the courtesy to defend the REAMS of content he dumps here (the few instances when he does respond -- only to those he deems are 'worthy' of a response -- he resorts to slippery/vague/cryptic language). I assure you that I tire of discussing this topic (this may seem shocking to some, but it is true). I simply can not allow bullshit content to sit here unchallenged. I'm clearly not the only one that feels this way.

Questionable content with hints (or overt representations) of pro-imperialist propaganda will get f'ing challenged in this forum, as it damn well should be. Period. If anyone disagrees with the content of a given challenge, they are absolutely welcome and entitled to respond with their own comments/refutations, SO LONG AS it EXCLUDES another f'ing round of comments about "bullying" and "badgering", etc. We have mods here for a reason. When a thread or comment crosses a line, you can trust that a mod will chime in and handle it accordingly.

No need for additional online "nannies".


Iamwhomiam » Sun May 06, 2018 10:01 pm wrote:Burnt Hill, thanks for checking back to the OP. While I was amenable to a name change, I now agree with you that we should not alter the thread title, as it purely reflects the OP title.



Belligerent Savant » Mon May 07, 2018 5:54 am wrote:
Iamwhomiam » Sun May 06, 2018 9:46 pm wrote:Here's my true unblemished opinion. I really don't give a damn! It's not my blog, It's Jeff's. AD and Jeff came to terms and if Jeff wanted AD gone, he'd be gone.

What I do care about is the incessant complaining, because that is annoying. Please, take issue with the poster via PM, or if that avenue doesn't pan out, ask for moderator intervention, but for the sake of all past, present and future contributors, bite your friggin tongue and control your emotions.

Enough with the screed. Your issue is with board management. Take it up with the managers; write a letter to the owner.



I don't care that you "don't give a damn" -- you weren't asked for your opinion(s).

Remember, YOU were the one to initiate and persist this silly exchange with your wholly erroneous premise.

You made it clear you care not about AD's material, nor do you have any interest in the challenges to his material (and as a result, you are misrepresenting the issues raised). Simply avert your eyes then. Focus on what you want to focus on and steer clear of what you don't care about.

Enough space has been wasted on your roundabout attempts to get to your unsolicited "unblemished opinion" . I've indulged in your meandering far longer than merited. Any further issues you have, take it up with me via PM or express them to a mod.


Belligerent Savant » Mon May 07, 2018 7:21 am wrote:.

I suggest you pay some more attention to detail; I've made no such comments Re: thread title changes (though I can't disagree with the suggestion).

While i'm correcting your miscue, here's another: quit with the utterly baseless strawman claims ("I not allowed to post any link that is not RT Sputnik"). You'll need to try harder than that. You know, RI.


JackRiddler » Mon May 07, 2018 3:44 pm wrote:Yeah, I can actually agree with that, it's good thinking. But the board is really flooded with so much of this kind of thread title. I urge restraint!


Burnt Hill » Mon May 07, 2018 4:25 pm wrote:And I agree with that.
We do have 2 mods now, I think.
I make an assumption that they can see the thread titles and could propose a change at the time of posting, if necessary.
I don't think any titles should be changed without the OP's consent.
Of course I also expect OP's to be adult humans.
Mods have a bit of work to do around here, they seem to be directing their attention in certain areas at perhaps the expense of others. I maintain faith in the two of them - but this is their job also.


alloneword » Tue May 08, 2018 3:18 am wrote:
Burnt Hill » Mon May 07, 2018 6:09 pm wrote:The inaccuracy of the title has significance too. Any rersearcher would readily understand this.
...
Life is often ugly and wrong, a thread title can reflect that.

I'm going to chime in here and say that I agree with this.

The thread title sounds desperate, shrill, and hysterical. It makes no grammatical sense, since the word 'at' is missing - plus the subsequent replies all have the word 'attack' curtailed (thanks to the character limit and prefix 'Re:'), lending it an air of breathlessness. I also like how the article it references even has the word 'Regime' in the first line. ( :yay )

As such, I think the thread title suits the contents of the OP perfectly. A torrent of undigested hysterical propaganda copy-pasta vomited onto the screen.

The very first actual comment on this thread sums it up very well:

Sounder » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:45 pm wrote:Rationality has been abandoned in preference to a death promoting group-think that passionately believes itself to 'represent' humanitarian ideals.

And that dear friends, is bullshit.


Am I right in thinking that none of the assertions contained in the OP(s) have stood up to the slightest scrutiny? :shrug:


Belligerent Savant » Tue May 08, 2018 4:37 pm wrote:
alloneword » Tue May 08, 2018 3:18 am wrote:
Burnt Hill » Mon May 07, 2018 6:09 pm wrote:The inaccuracy of the title has significance too. Any rersearcher would readily understand this.
...
Life is often ugly and wrong, a thread title can reflect that.

I'm going to chime in here and say that I agree with this.

The thread title sounds desperate, shrill, and hysterical. It makes no grammatical sense, since the word 'at' is missing - plus the subsequent replies all have the word 'attack' curtailed (thanks to the character limit and prefix 'Re:'), lending it an air of breathlessness. I also like how the article it references even has the word 'Regime' in the first line. ( :yay )

As such, I think the thread title suits the contents of the OP perfectly. A torrent of undigested hysterical propaganda copy-pasta vomited onto the screen.

The very first actual comment on this thread sums it up very well:

Sounder » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:45 pm wrote:Rationality has been abandoned in preference to a death promoting group-think that passionately believes itself to 'represent' humanitarian ideals.

And that dear friends, is bullshit.


Am I right in thinking that none of the assertions contained in the OP(s) have stood up to the slightest scrutiny? :shrug:


that's right: NONE.

It is interesting, indeed, to go back to the first 2-3 pages of this thread, the shrill copy/pasting of MSM propaganda, reproduced and absorbed without any scrutiny by some, while others (rightfully, it turns out) suspected (via a sober assessment of trends/M.O.) under-handed tactics at play. A recurring theme here, particularly the last couple yrs or so.

The MSM operates at the behest of Imperialist beasts, more blatantly than ever before. This should be well understood within these walls by now.


mentalgongfu2 » Wed May 09, 2018 3:14 am wrote:
I also like how the article it references even has the word 'Regime' in the first line. ( :yay )


Indeed, "regime" is a loaded word. Has a bit of totalitarian connotation, doesn't it? It is a word that was used frequently by the left to refer to the "Bush Regime," and then by the right to refer to the "Obama Regime."

No surprise that it would be trotted out in regard to Russia and Putin. In America, at this point, it is a stand-in for 'any governmental head we (we being the subject and author of the opinion) don't like.'

I'm not sure it deserves its' place in any of the above descriptions, but the use of the word itself is not all that remarkable to me.


smiths » Wed May 09, 2018 8:12 am wrote:The Skripal Affair would be a neutral and more accurate title

The first page of links and posts is so biased it is farcical to mock other (Russian) news sources later in the story

Whining about how people are getting wrongly obsessed with the title is disingenuous, titles are the most important part of any kind of news or information story

Attacking anyone who questions the original posts and the general Russian-bashing narrative is bizarre behaviour

Conclusion: This thread is a case study is framing and manipulation from start to finish

The Skripal poisoning was bullshit - its so blatantly obvious its weird to even argue over

Your welcome


smiths » Wed May 09, 2018 8:25 am wrote:that iss bullshit,
i followed that story from the beginning and there were skeptical voices from the first moments of the story breaking,
your first page sourced nothing but Russia Guilty stories and kept that line all the way through

to say that they were just the stories that came up at first is not true

OK, you fucking hate Trump and you think he is a corrupt unfit person to be President, I agree

but your posts i have just read across a few threads show a clear pattern, a staunch anti-Russian agenda

I think thats fine, but i think you should be straight up about it, not pretend thats its just the news stories that happened to come out


smiths » Wed May 09, 2018 8:33 am wrote:Well SLAD, i dont seem to have as much time on my hands as you do

The early MSM reporting came from the Times, the BBC and the Guardian - the establishment

Simon Tidsall in the Guardian cannot be trusted, Harding is definitely an establishment stooge

You say that those were just the stories but honestly, do you deny that you see Russia behind all of the calamities occurring in the US and perhaps in the UK

do you deny that your views of Russia align perfectly with the current media portrayal of Putin and Russia as bogeyman to the 'Western Democracies'?


smiths » Wed May 09, 2018 8:38 am wrote:
"don't come here and school me on what I post when YOU posted NOTHING"


The beauty of this forum like many other almost free places is that i can do exactly that ...

if i want to comment on what i see as a bias in your posting and then your follow up attacks on posters, whilst posting nothing myself, i can

and you, cannot instruct me on what i can and cannot do

thats cool though, i get it, you cant admit the actual point i am making


smiths » Wed May 09, 2018 8:43 am wrote:"the nerve"?

i get it, its a pun ...

i have the nerve yes, i just don't think the Russians did, on this occasion, not that they wouldn't, just not this time

and again, if you think that you have some sort of right to tell me when or what i can say, you are mistaken


anyway, do you actually think Trump is a Russian agent, or being played by Russia for Russian interests?


smiths » Wed May 09, 2018 8:49 am wrote:and the issue i had is not that there isn't bias on both sides,

its just that when i read the thread and the title it seemed obvious that the title was misleading of 'the Affair' in its entirety,

and i think that is problematic, it sets a tone or a presumption for an issue that is contested

if it was a newspaper headline it would be rightly described as being biased or propaganda by way of drawing unproven conclusions clearly designed to manipulate perceptions

and if they were really were the only stories available to you at the time - cool

but why resist changing the title later to something that reflects the topic more fairly or neutrally?


smiths » Wed May 09, 2018 9:01 am wrote:OK, i am stating right now for the record, i think a more neutral thread title would be awesome for this thread.

I think posters shouldn't be afraid of thread title changes as stories evolve.

I think that if you are genuinely interested in the truth, you would welcome a more truthful headline on your story.

i think posting about being 'the first to post' and therefore claiming the 'right' to define a story is against the spirit of community, reporting, history, and the search for answers in a complex and warped world


MacCruiskeen » Wed May 09, 2018 9:51 am wrote:
smiths » Wed May 09, 2018 9:01 am wrote:OK, i am stating right now for the record, i think a more neutral thread title would be awesome for this thread.

I think posters shouldn't be afraid of thread title changes as stories evolve.

I think that if you are genuinely interested in the truth, you would welcome a more truthful headline on your story.

i think posting about being 'the first to post' and therefore claiming the 'right' to define a story is against the spirit of community, reporting, history, and the search for answers in a complex and warped world


Smiths, good to see you here (for the first time in eleven months!), but I perfectly understand why you, like so many other honest and rational long-term RI members, have more-or-less completely given up on this place. For the record, I agree wholeheartedly with every word you wrote there, most especially the last line.

And congratulations, smiths: You have now joined the very large club of people to be accused, by slad, of subjecting slad to a "personal attack". Translated into English, this means you ventured to disagree with her.




Burnt Hill » Wed May 09, 2018 1:13 pm wrote:You left this out Mac - :ohno:
Thanks for reminding me of your opposition to collaborative discussion!
:thumbsup




Elvis » Wed May 09, 2018 10:30 pm wrote:
Burnt Hill » Wed May 09, 2018 7:01 pm wrote:Compare one specific news source (RT) to the entirety of american media, and you could come up with any analogy you want.
The question should be whether RT is more objective than any other
specific american media. And that answer is no.
Also it would just plain be silly to not understand it is propaganda too, even when it is correct, just as the best of american media is.
I will add that it is perfectly fine if you prefer your news with a moskal flair, that is fine with me.


To make myself more clear, in this context "American news" means major U.S. networks and news channels: ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, FOX, MSNBC; it doesn't mean Democracy Now! or Infowars or Free Speech Radio.

I limited my assessment of RT to Ukraine, Syria and Skripal, I didn't crown RT as the sterling cryer of truth and first exponent of objectivity (fer cryin out loud).

I hardly see any TV news, what I do see is on YouTube, usually something linked here, then I might follow related videos and see more "news." I do find Russian news interesting. Back when it was first carried on U.S. cable, I made it a point to watch the Moscow nightly news (what was that called?); I think it was in the 1980s. I remember their video imagery was kind of flat, technologically 'behind'; they've come a long way.


On the first day of Propaganda class (in high school!) Mrs. D explained that propaganda doesn't necessarily mean disinformation, and can be perfectly truthful and work for everyone's good, so I've had that lesson.


Elvis » Wed May 09, 2018 11:48 pm wrote:A number of thread titles have been changed or requested to be changed...not always without some controversy...

https://www.google.com/search?num=50&ne ... UXYny2V4K4

I do wish I could change the title of this OP



And remember this one? I don't imagine General Patton was thrilled.

(And where is General Patton?)[/quote]

Elvis » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:06 pm wrote:No irony intended, just my impression from mostly people I know IRL. I was disappointed when one very intelligent, usually well--informed friend could not fathom why UK might blame Russia even if Russia didn't do it. Stuff like this is also effective:

Image

Image



seemslikeadream » Wed May 09, 2018 11:51 pm wrote:


my thread my title my decision

you guys can badger me till the cows come home I am not changing the title of this thread

you guys can keep up your little hissy fit for the next 10 years you can up grade this issue into a war and you will still not change my mind


you can bring back HMW to do your bidding for all I care IT IS NOT HAPPENING

you can bring back Mr. Cowboy to do your bidding for all I care IT IS NOT HAPPENING

you can bring back solace to do your bidding for all I care IT IS NOT HAPPENING

you can bring back c_d to do your bidding for all I care IT IS NOT HAPPENING

you can bring back Nordic to do your bidding for all I care IT IS NOT HAPPENING

you can bring back jakel to do your bidding for all I care IT IS NOT HAPPENING

but how do you like the Russian oligarch who's money was used to hush up a porn star for trump
Image

Michael Cohen took a 1/2 million from that Russian oligarch to pay off trump's porn star
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=40936


oh am I off topic ....I thought this was the how to badger a member into changing the title of her thread because we want her too ....she must do as we say or she does not seek the truth and we as children will stomp our feet and throw a hissy fit until she does she must bend to our demands ....doesn't she know who we are???? WE ARE THE TRUTH SEEKERS THROWING A HISSY FIT BECAUSE WE WILL NOT GET OUR WAY AND WE WILL DERAIL THIS THREAD UNTIL SHE BENDS TO OUR DEMANDS




back on topic

Skripal poisoning: UK set to request extradition of Russian attack suspects
British authorities reportedly believe two Russians were involved in the nerve agent attack in the southern English city of Salisbury. The Kremlin is expected to reject the request.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby Sounder » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:12 am

Displacement attempt, yet the fact remains, the marketed narrative has fallen apart.


Thanks Griz, the commenters at PT are pretty sharp.

Grizzly wrote...
Regardless of what one may thing about where this particular post comes from, I think it as well as the comments are sobering...
Christopher Steele, FBI's Confidential Human Source by Publius Tacitus
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semp ... citus.html
but to each their own...
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:51 am

Judicial Watch. ......Steele.....give me a break!

so we continue to derail ...fine let's continue to play that game...I'm game!


Ohr approached the FBI with Steele’s information in late November. The FISA court application was in October.

So unless Ohr can bend the space time continuum, there’s something wrong with this conspiracy theory


Donald J. Trump

“Ohr told the FBI it (the Fake Dossier) wasn’t true, it was a lie and the FBI was determined to use it anyway to damage Trump and to perpetrate a fraud on the court to spy on the Trump campaign. This is a fraud on the court. The Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court is in......


Bruce Ohr Fought Russian Organized Crime. Now He’s a Target of Trump.

Aug. 27, 2018

The longtime Justice Department official Bruce G. Ohr, center, has come under fire from President Trump and his allies.Lucía Godínez/Agencia El Universal, via Associated Press
WASHINGTON — When a lawyer for one of Russia’s most powerful reputed crime bosses arrived at F.B.I. headquarters one day around 2006, he wanted to cut a deal. The Russian, Semion Y. Mogilevich, had been indicted three years earlier by the department on charges of defrauding a company outside Philadelphia out of $150 million and could not travel for fear of arrest.

As the lawyer made his pitch, a supervising F.B.I. agent and a senior career Justice Department official, Bruce G. Ohr, both listened intently, according to a former bureau official who described the meeting. The case was significant for American law enforcement. It had made headlines and laid the groundwork for Justice Department efforts to combat Russian organized crime overseas.

Finally, the F.B.I. agent spoke. No deal, he said; Mr. Mogilevich must surrender. Mr. Ohr said little, but his unwillingness to negotiate was signal enough: The Justice Department would not compromise with the Russian mafia.

“Occasionally you run across people from the Justice Department who have an air of superiority toward agents, and Bruce had none of that,” said Chris Swecker, a former senior F.B.I. official who worked with Mr. Ohr. “He was just the opposite. He was well liked at the F.B.I. and fought for their cases.”

In nearly three decades at the Justice Department, Mr. Ohr has made a career of supporting and facilitating important cases that targeted Russian organized crime. Now he is a target of President Trump, who has put his security clearance under review and attacked him publicly, and allies. They have cast Mr. Ohr and his wife — who worked as a contractor at the same research firm that produced a damaging dossier of information about Mr. Trump — as villains, part of a pro-Clinton cabal out to destroy the president.

But Mr. Ohr, 56, is far from corrupt, friends and former colleagues said. An experienced law enforcement official, he has a deep understanding of the underworld of Russian organized crime, they said, including raising concerns about at least one oligarch whose name has resurfaced amid the scrutiny of contacts between Trump associates and Russia.

As part of this work, Mr. Ohr met a British spy who specialized in Russia, Christopher Steele, and the two men developed a bond based on their shared expertise. Mr. Steele went on to investigate ties between Mr. Trump and Russia for the same research firm, Fusion GPS, where Ms. Ohr was a contractor.

Those connections have upended Mr. Ohr’s once relatively anonymous life, dragging him into the maelstrom of the Russia investigation. Justice Department officials transferred Mr. Ohr, an associate deputy attorney general, to a less powerful post last year after learning about his contacts with Mr. Steele and the scope of his wife’s work. If he loses his security clearance, he would probably be forced to leave federal law enforcement after nearly three decades.

“For him to be in the Justice Department, and to be doing what he did, that is a disgrace,” Mr. Trump said of Mr. Ohr this month to reporters.

On Tuesday, Mr. Ohr is to appear before a closed hearing of the House Judiciary and House Oversight committees, jointly investigating F.B.I. and Justice Department activities related to the 2016 election. Republicans are likely to ask Mr. Ohr why he met with Mr. Steele even after the F.B.I. terminated its relationship with Mr. Steele for speaking to the news media and who approved the meetings.

Those who know Mr. Ohr seem perplexed that the president has singled him out. Co-workers and former associates describe him as a scrupulous government official who cares deeply about the Justice Department.

“He’s a small player in a bigger, broader stage here,” Mr. Swecker said. “I feel bad for him. I think he is well intentioned. I view him as someone who would never do anything malicious.”

Mr. Ohr’s lawyer, Joshua Berman, declined to comment for this article.

A graduate of Harvard Law School, Mr. Ohr joined the Justice Department in 1991 from a law firm in San Francisco. As a federal prosecutor in Manhattan, he twice won top awards and rose to be chief of the district’s violent gangs unit.

He had a knack for managing people and pushing cases forward, former associates said, which helped propel him to a job at the Justice Department in Washington in 1999 as the head of the organized crime and racketeering section. He provided the F.B.I. with resources to prosecute cases and navigated relationships with the intelligence community, brokering disputes and earning the respect of the F.B.I. and prosecutors.

As oligarchs and gangs flourished in Eurasia after the fall of the Soviet Union, Mr. Ohr, his deputies, the F.B.I. and federal prosecutors tackled Russian crime syndicates, said J. Kenneth Lowrie, a former federal prosecutor who was Mr. Ohr’s longtime deputy.

“Until 9/11, organized crime was one of the main priority criminal programs at the Justice Department,” said Mr. Lowrie, who retired in 2008. “Russian organized crime was a focus. Bruce knew a lot of the Russia stuff and traveled there.”


Christopher Steele, the former British spy and F.B.I. informant, compiled a dossier that contained salacious material about the president.Victoria Jones/Press Association, via Associated Press
Mr. Ohr’s section supported the 2000 prosecution of Pavlo Lazarenko, the former prime minister of Ukraine, who was convicted of money laundering, wire fraud and extortion in a case brought by the office of the United States attorney in San Francisco at the time, Robert S. Mueller III, who is now the special counsel.

Mr. Ohr was a manager, not a litigator, who built bridges with law enforcement agencies around the world, former Justice Department officials said. He sent top deputies to Hungary to root out the nascent Russian mob in the early 2000s. F.B.I. agents viewed the commitment as a sign of his seriousness about combating Russian organized crime.

In 2006, Mr. Ohr was part of a group of government officials who revoked the visa of Oleg Deripaska, a Russian billionaire and aluminum magnate. Officials were concerned that Mr. Deripaska might try to come to the United States to launder illicit profits through real estate, a former law enforcement official said.

Mr. Deripaska, a close ally of President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, has been tied to the former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, who was convicted last week of tax and bank fraud. In 2016, Mr. Manafort offered private campaign briefings to Mr. Deripaska, raising concerns about the prospect of Russians wielding influence inside the White House. In April, the United States imposed sanctions on Mr. Deripaska.

In 2007, Mr. Ohr met Mr. Steele, who was still with MI-6, the British spy service, according to a former senior American law enforcement official who knows both men. Both governments approved their contacts, the former official said.

Mr. Ohr moved on to other senior jobs, starting in 2010 as counsel for international relations in the Justice Department’s transnational organized crime and international affairs section, where he bolstered partnerships with foreign law enforcement agencies. In 2014, he became the director of the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Forces, distributing grant money to bolster prosecutorial work.

He stayed in touch with Mr. Steele, meeting him in Rome in 2014 and in Washington in 2015.

For the F.B.I., their relationship would come in handy. A longtime informant who provided valuable tips on corruption, Mr. Steele violated his confidentiality agreement with the F.B.I. when he disclosed to a reporter in the months before the 2016 election that he had been working with the bureau. He had expressed frustration that his information about Mr. Trump, gathered for Fusion GPS, the research firm that hired him on behalf of Democrats to research the candidate, had gone seemingly nowhere in the F.B.I.

In early November 2016, the agent handling Mr. Steele told him not to obtain intelligence “on behalf of the F.B.I.”

That did not stop F.B.I. agents from collecting coveted information from Mr. Steele. While the F.B.I. could no longer consider him a confidential informant, former officials said, agents eager to assess the dossier as part of their counterintelligence investigation into links between Trump associates and Russia’s election interference could still document what he was telling a third party — Mr. Ohr.

And when Mr. Ohr approached the F.B.I. about his relationship with Mr. Steele, bureau officials saw an opportunity.

Mr. Ohr met with Mr. Steele almost a dozen times beginning in late 2016 through May 2017, according to congressional officials. F.B.I. agents interviewed Mr. Ohr after the meetings and documented the information.

Republicans have seized on the meetings. Senator Charles E. Grassley, Republican of Iowa and the head of the Senate Judiciary Committee, asked the Justice Department to declassify the F.B.I.’s reports on them. “It seems like he is a key player,” Representative Jim Jordan, Republican of Ohio and a staunch supporter of the president, told Fox News this month.

But the arrangement was not unusual, former law enforcement officials said. Senior F.B.I. officials were aware of the Steele meetings, and those involved followed internal guidelines, a former official said.

Mr. Ohr’s contacts with Mr. Steele were one small part of a broader effort to determine whether the allegations in the dossier were true, a former official said. The F.B.I. also did not have all the reports that Mr. Steele had produced and agents were keen to get them.

Conservatives have also targeted Ms. Ohr, whose contract work at Fusion GPS involved monitoring Russian news media and compiling connections between Mr. Trump and Russia from public documents. She did not work on the dossier, according to a person familiar with her work for Fusion GPS.

Mr. Ohr still has a job at the Justice Department, though he is functionally no longer a manager. It is unclear how long that will last. Mr. Trump has called for Attorney General Jeff Sessions to fire Mr. Ohr.

“It seems that Bruce had two sins: He met with Chris Steele and his wife worked for Fusion GPS. None of that seems wrong to me,” Mr. Lowrie said. “Bruce is a straight arrow. He was totally nonpartisan, as we all were expected” to be.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/27/us/p ... -smartlock


The dossier’s high level of accuracy is rapidly becoming clear.

you know who doesn't like the Dossier? traitor trump and his good buddy Putin ...I wonder why

if you want to believe trump apologists (that would be FauxNews TASS Sputnik and RT) fine by me

Trump Intelligence Allegations THE DOSSIER
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=40660


TASS....RT....Sputnik (just like FauxNews...mouth piece for trump) whatever if you want to believe their point of view that's fine EVERYONE here should have the same right to a thread that is not disrupted

after the crew did all that ...THEN they decide to start their own thread....why did't they just do that to begin with if the babies couldn't contain themselves in this thread?


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https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/judicial-watch/



the fact remains that I have had my off topic posts deleted in another thread just because they were off topic and all that was allowed to happen...just because someone did not like the name of my thread........wanted to derail this thread....wanted to shut me up.....show me where a thread of yours was ever treated like that just because someone disagreed with you...it does not matter if I was right or wrong about this subject that's not the point....those dozens of off topic posts were allowed to happen they were not arguing the point....they were made as a distraction

seemslikeadream » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:42 pm wrote:
A DC Judge Has Dismissed Russian Bankers' Lawsuit Against The Author Of The Trump Dossier

The lawsuit against Christopher Steele is one of several that came out of the dossier's preparation and publication.

Headshot of Chris Geidner
Chris Geidner
BuzzFeed News Reporter
Posted on August 21, 2018, at 3:32 p.m. ET

Victoria Jones / Newscom
A judge in Washington, DC, has tossed out a defamation lawsuit brought by three Russian oligarchs against former British intelligence agent Christopher Steele over his discussion of them in the dossier he prepared during the 2016 US presidential election campaign describing Donald Trump's links to Russia.

The men — Petr Aven, Mikhail Fridman, and German Khan — are investors in Alfa Bank and had sued Steele and his company, Orbis Business Intelligence, alleging that the dossier defamed them by linking them to Russian efforts regarding the presidential election.

The trio also has filed suit in federal court against Fusion GPS and Glenn Simpson, who had hired Steele, and in state court in New York against BuzzFeed, which published the dossier in January 2017.

DC Superior Court Judge Anthony C. Epstein dismissed the case against Steele under DC's Anti-SLAPP Act. Anti-SLAPP laws are aimed at providing protections for would-be defendants who are the targets of "strategic lawsuits against public participation."

In Monday's ruling, Epstein found that Steele's activity was covered under the law as a matter of public interest and that the three oligarchs suing Steele were "limited-purpose public figures" by virtue of their potential involvement with Russian government officials.

Because of those findings, the court then considered under the Anti-SLAPP Act whether the oligarchs could succeed in showing that Steele acted with "actual malice" — with knowledge that the information he wrote about them was false or with "reckless disregard" for whether it was false.

Epstein found the trio did not meet their burden to show evidence that they would be likely to succeed in proving that the part of the dossier involving Alfa Bank — called "CIR 112" — was published by Steele with actual malice.

"Plaintiffs do not offer evidence that Mr. Steele in fact had subjective doubts or recklessly disregarded information about its falsity, or that Defendants had obvious reason to doubt the source described in CIR 112 as a 'trusted compatriot' of a 'top level Russian government official,'" the judge wrote.

"We strongly disagree with the Court’s decision which we will almost certainly appeal," Alan Lewis, one of the oligarchs' lawyers, told BuzzFeed News in an email on Tuesday. "We are, however, pleased that the Court agreed that we have adequately proved Mr. Steele’s negligence in making unsupported accusations that our clients had something to do with alleged efforts to interfere in the 2016 election — which they did not. We respectfully disagree with Judge Epstein on a number of points and are confident that the appellate court will reinstate the Plaintiffs' claims."

In the ruling, Epstein wrote that Steele's lack of "supporting facts" to support claims in the dossier "may establish negligence," but Epstein went on to say that such a finding would be irrelevant because "negligence is constitutionally insufficient to show the recklessness that is required for a finding of actual malice." The judge noted that, under that standard, "it is not enough to show that defendant should have known better; instead, the plaintiff must offer evidence that the defendant in fact harbored subjective doubt."

In a later email, Lewis wrote that that passage carried "the strong implication ... we have adequately proved Steele’s negligence ... and that, if the court had found our clients to be private figures (subject to a negligence standard) rather than public figures (subject to an actual malice standard) it would not have" dismissed the lawsuit.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ch ... gainst-the


Christopher Steele’s Victory in a D.C. Court

A D.C. judge has dismissed a defamation suit filed by Russia’s Alfa Bank against the former British intelligence officer and author of the dossier alleging ties between Russia and the Trump campaign.

Natasha Bertrand is a staff writer at The Atlantic where she covers national security and the intelligence community.
3:34 PM ET

Christopher SteeleVictoria Jones / Press Association via AP
The author of the explosive dossier outlining the president’s alleged ties to Russia won an important legal victory on Monday, when a judge dismissed a defamation lawsuit brought against his firm by the co-founders of Russia’s largest private bank.


In his decision to toss the case “with prejudice”—that is, permanently—Judge Anthony C. Epstein of the Washington, D.C. Superior Court concluded that the author of the dossier, former British intelligence officer agent Christopher Steele, acted “in furtherance of the right of advocacy on issues of public interest” when he decided to brief reporters on the dossier’s findings in the summer of 2016. Steele’s conduct is therefore protected by “anti-SLAPP” statutes, according to the judge, which aim to halt lawsuits brought to chill the exercise of constitutionally protected free speech.



In a statement, Steele’s lawyer Christy Hull Eikhoff told me that they were “thrilled” with the outcome. "We will continue to defend against baseless attacks on Chris and his company, Orbis, and hope that the result of this case will be a lesson to those who seek to intimidate Chris and his company." Alan Lewis, a lawyer representing Alfa’s co-founders—Mikhail Fridman, German Kahn, and Petr Aven—said they “strongly” disagreed with the court’s decision and planned to appeal.


Judge Epstein’s decision in the lawsuit did not consider whether the dossier was accurate or inaccurate. But his conclusion offered the first authoritative response to questions that have been raised by President Trump’s Republican allies about the propriety of Steele discussing the dossier with reporters prior to the 2016 election.

Trump’s relentless assault on special prosecutor Robert Mueller’s investigation into possible ties between the Trump campaign and Russia as a “witch hunt” begins with the dossier, which the president and Congressional Republicans consider the probe’s proximate cause. They characterize the document as a scurrilously inaccurate attack funded by Hillary Clinton’s campaign.


According to Judge Epstein, the dossier “as a whole plainly concerns an issue of public interest...because it relates to possible Russian interference within the 2016 election.” Steele has made a similar argument with regard to his decision to pause his coordination with the FBI and brief the media directly on his findings in September and October of 2016, according to people familiar with his thinking: While he never intended for the dossier itself to be made public—he has said he was “horrified” when BuzzFeed published it in full—he believed the public had a dire need to know the broad outlines of a potential conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia, and the FBI had no plans to make such details known. “The Steele dossier generated so much attention and interest in the United States precisely because its content relates to active public debates here,” Epstein wrote.

Alfa Bank and its co-founders Fridman, Aven, and Khan played a fairly limited role in the dossier. Steele devoted a small section to outlining what his source—a “trusted compatriot” of a “top level Russian government official”—had described as Alfa’s “close relationship with” Russian President Vladimir Putin and the “significant favors” exchanged between them, including Alfa’s allegedly “illicit” cash deliveries to Putin throughout the 1990’s.


The dossier goes on to say that Fridman and Aven gave “informal advice to Putin on foreign policy, and especially about the U.S.” throughout 2016, but stopped short of linking Alfa to Russia’s election interference. Alfa and its co-founders have denied engaging in any improper conduct.

In court documents, the Alfa plaintiffs have argued two seemingly contradictory points: first, that Steele implied they had been involved in a Trump-Russia conspiracy, and second, that the section of the dossier dealing with the bank was not in the public interest because it did not mention a specific candidate or the 2016 presidential election. Epstein caught this, and wrote that Alfa Bank could not, on the one hand, contend that Steele accused them of cooperating with Russia’s election interference, while on the other hand saying such an explosive revelation would not be in the public interest, he wrote.


The judge also called it “ironic” that Alfa’s co-founders, “who are non-resident aliens with Russian and/or Israeli citizenship,” had argued that non-resident aliens like Steele, who is a British national, don’t have First Amendment rights—even as the co-founders themselves were “ petitioning a U.S. court for a redress of their grievances and invoking a constitutional right to conduct discovery...Plaintiffs do not explain why non-resident aliens have the same right as U.S. citizens to bring defamation actions, but non-resident aliens do not have the same rights as U.S. citizens to defend themselves,” Epstein wrote in a footnote.


Epstein found that Steele was “engaging in speculation” to the extent that the dossier suggests Alfa was involved in Russia’s election interference. Lewis, the plaintiffs’ lawyer, seized on that comment, writing in a statement that they are “pleased that the Court agreed that we have adequately proved Mr. Steele’s negligence in making unsupported accusations that our clients had something to do with alleged efforts to interfere in the 2016 election—which they did not.” Still, even Steele’s “subjective view, interpretation, theory or conjecture” is protected under the First Amendment, according to Epstein.

The fact that Judge Epstein characterized the lawsuit against Steele as a “SLAPP” action is also significant. Alfa has brought similar defamation suits against Fusion GPS, the opposition research firm that hired Steele, and BuzzFeed, which published the dossier in full in January 2017. (Alfa also hired American lawyers—one of whom, Brian Benczkowski, was just confirmed as the head of the Justice Department’s National Security Division—to help clear its name following reports that its servers communicated with Trump Tower servers during the election.) It is unclear whether those suits will face a similar fate. Ultimately, Epstein said, Alfa failed to provide evidence that Steele acted with “actual malice”—that is, that he “knew the information was false or acted with reckless disregard for its falsity.”


Having successfully argued that his work was in the public interest, Steele was afforded the protection of anti-SLAPP statutes and the burden was shifted to Alfa to prove that Steele knew the information was either fabricated or came from a highly unreliable source. Epstein said that Alfa had failed to do so, and noted that, with regard to Steele’s assertion that Alfa had been “dogged by allegations of corruption and illegal conduct,” Fridman himself had acknowledged in the past that the “rules of business” in Russia “are quite different to western standards” and to “be completely clean and transparent is not realistic.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... rt/568057/



THE STEELE DOSSIER

What is the Dossier?

In January 2017, BuzzFeed News published an intelligence dossier developed by a former British MI6 intelligence officer who was deemed credible by U.S. intelligence officials. The Dossier raises profoundly disturbing questions about whether there was improper contact between the Trump campaign and the Russian government and about the existence of compromising personal and financial information about Donald Trump. At the time BuzzFeed published the Dossier, it acknowledged that the allegations it contained were “unverified” and that the document contained “some clear errors.”

BuzzFeed’s decision to publish the Dossier has itself attracted a lot of attention. The Dossier is part of ongoing lawsuits filed by parties named in the dossier and may be part of congressional investigations.

Why is it Important?

The Dossier is a human intelligence document or [HUMINT] and therefore should be viewed not as evidence in a trial, but as a road map for investigators. The dossier’s high level of accuracy is rapidly becoming clear.

There are significant takeaways that are largely absent from the conversation about the Dossier:

Christopher Steele is credible. Steele was not just a former UK MI-6 officer; he also worked on behalf of the FBI in the successful FIFA investigation.
Steele and the Dossier were credible enough for former FBI Director James Comey and Director of National Intelligence James Clapper to brief President Obama and then-President elect Trump on the contents of the dossier.
Steele was writing the Dossier in real time and it largely contains intelligence related to internal Russian efforts to interfere, not intelligence about the Trump campaign.
Steele was concerned about his safety after the Dossier was released and went into hiding.
While much attention has gone to the salacious tape described in the Dossier, more should be paid to the allegation that for at least 5 years Trump was passing information on Russians living at his properties to Russian intelligence operatives. Steele cites four different sources – a former senior Russian intelligence figure (who is believed to have been murdered in his car on December 26, 2016), a current senior Russian foreign ministry figure, and two Russian emigres; these sources all indicate that Trump had a relationship with Russian intelligence and was providing information on the comings and goings of Russians at his properties. We know that Trump had a vast surveillance system of his properties, and that President Putin and Russian intelligence keep a close tab on Russian oligarchs. We also have separate press reporting that UK, Dutch, French, German, Estonian, and Australian intelligence agencies picked up intelligence on meetings between Trump associates and Russian intelligence going back to 2015.
Below is the searchable Dossier in full as published by Buzzfeed.

It should be assumed that all allegations below remain unsubstantiated until corroborated by independent information.

We have redacted certain lines from the dossier that are both unsubstantiated and profane. All redactions are noted below, and a full version of the text can be found at BuzzFeed News. If these allegations are proven true, they will be added to the site.

COMPANY INTELLIGENCE REPORT 2016/080

US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE DONALD TRUMP’S ACTIVITIES IN RUSSIA AND COMPROMISING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE KREMLIN

Summary

-Russian regime has been cultivating, supporting and assisting TRUMP for at least 5 years. Aim, endorsed by PUTIN, has been to encourage splits and divisions in western alliance

-So far TRUMP has declined various sweetener real estate business deals offered him in Russia in order to further the Kremlin’s cultivation of him. However he and his inner circle have accepted a regular flow of intelligence from the Kremlin, including on his Democratic and other political rivals

-Former top Russian intelligence officer claims FSB has compromised TRUMP through his activities in Moscow sufficiently to be able to blackmail him. According to several knowledgeable sources, his conduct in Moscow has included [REDACTED BY THE MOSCOW PROJECT] arranged/ monitored by the FSB

-A dossier of compromising material on Hillary CLINTON has been collated by the Russian Intelligence Services over many years and mainly comprises bugged conversations she had on various visits to Russia and intercepted phone calls rather than any embarrassing conduct. The dossier is controlled by Kremlin spokesman, PESKOV, directly on PUTIN’s orders. However it has not as yet been distributed abroad, including to TRUMP. Russian intentions for its deployment still unclear

Detail

Speaking to a trusted compatriot in June 2016 sources A and B, a senior Russian Foreign Ministry figure and a former top level Russian intelligence officer still active inside the Kremlin respectively, the Russian authorities had been cultivating and supporting US Republican presidential candidate, Donald TRUMP for at least 5 years. Source B asserted that the TRUMP operation was both supported and directed by Russian President Vladimir PUTIN. Its aim was to sow discord and disunity both within the US itself, but more especially within the Transatlantic alliance which was viewed as inimical to Russia’s interests. Source C, a senior Russian financial official said the Trump operation should be seen in terms of PUTIN’s desire to return to Nineteenth Century ‘Great Power’ politics anchored upon countries’ interests rather than the ideals-based international order established after World War Two. S/he had overheard PUTIN talking in this way to close associates on several occasions.
In terms of specifics, Source A confided that the Kremlin had been feeding TRUMP and his team valuable intelligence on his opponents, including Democratic presidential candidate Hillary CLINTON, for several years (see more below). This was confirmed by Source D, a close associate of TRUMP who had organized and managed his recent trips to Moscow, and who reported, also in June 2016, that this Russian intelligence had been “very helpful”. The Kremlin’s cultivation operation on TRUMP also had comprised offering him various lucrative real estate development business deals in Russia, especially in relation to the ongoing 2018 World Cup soccer tournament, However, so far, for reasons unknown, TRUMP had not taken up any of these.
However, there were other aspects to TRUMP’s engagement with the Russian authorities. One which had borne fruit for them was to exploit TRUMP’s personal obsessions and [REDACTED BY THE MOSCOW PROJECT] in order to obtain suitable ‘kompromat’ (compromising material) on him. According to Source D, where s/he had been present, TRUMP’S [REDACTED BY THE MOSCOW PROJECT] conduct in Moscow included hiring the presidential suite of the Ritz Carlton Hotel, where he knew President and Mrs OBAMA (whom he hated) had stayed on one of their official trips to Russia, and [REDACTED BY THE MOSCOW PROJECT]. The hotel was known to be under FSB control with microphones and concealed cameras in all the main rooms to record anything they wanted to.
The Moscow Ritz Carlton episode involving TRUMP reported above was confirmed by Source E, [REDACTED BY BUZZFEED NEWS], who said that s/he and several of the staff were aware of it at the time and subsequently. S/he believed it had happened in 2013. Source E provided an introduction for a company ethnic Russian operative to Source F, a female staffer at the hotel when TRUMP had stayed there, who also confirmed the story. Speaking separately in June 2016, Source B (the former top level Russian intelligence officer) asserted that TRUMP’s unorthodox behavior in Russia over the years had provided the authorities there with enough embarrassing material on the now Republican presidential candidate to be able to blackmail him if they so wished.
Asked about the Kremlin’s reported intelligence feed to TRUMP over recent years and rumours about a Russian dossier of ‘kornpromat’ on Hillary CLINTON (being circulated), Source B confirmed the file’s existence. S/he confided in a trusted compatriot that it had been collated by Department K of the FSB for many years, dating back to her husband Bill’s presidency, and comprised mainly eavesdropped conversations of various sorts rather than details/evidence of unorthodox or embarrassing behavior. Some of the conversations were from bugged comments CLINTON had made on her various trips to Russia and focused on things she had said which contradicted her current positions on various issues. Others were most probably from phone intercepts.
Continuing on this theme, Source G, a senior Kremlin official, confided that the CLINTON dossier was controlled exclusively by Chief Kremlin spokesman, Dmitriy PESKOV, who was responsible for compiling/handling it on the explicit instructions of PUTIN The dossier however had not as yet been made available abroad, including to TRUMP or his campaign team. At present it was unclear what PUTIN’s intentions were in this regard.
20 June 2016

COMPANY INTELLIGENCE REPORT 2016/086

RUSSIA/CYBER CRIME: A SYNOPSIS OF RUSSIAN STATE SPONSORED AND OTHER CYBER OFFENSIVE (CRIMINAL) OPERATIONS

Summary

-Russia has extensive programme of state-sponsored offensive cyber operations. External targets include foreign governments and big corporations, especially banks. FSB leads on cyber within Russian apparatus. Limited success in attacking top foreign targets like G7 governments, security services and IFIs but much more on second tier ones through IT back doors, using corporate and other visitors to Russia

-FSB often uses coercion and blackmail to recruit most capable cyber operatives in Russia into its state sponsored programmes. Heavy use also, both wittingly and unwittingly, of CIS emigres working in western corporations and ethnic Russians employed by neighbouring governments e.g. Latvia

-Example cited of successful Russian cyber operation targeting senior Western business visitor. Provided back door into important Western institutions.

-Example given of US citizen of Russian origin approached by FSB and offered incentive of “investment” in his business when visiting Moscow.

-Problems however for Russian authorities themselves in countering local hackers and cyber criminals, operating outside state control. Central Bank claims there were over 20 serious attacks on correspondent accounts held by CBR in 2015, comprising Roubles several billion in fraud

-Some details given of leading non-state Russian cyber criminal groups

Details

Speaking in June 2016, a number of Russian figures with a detailed knowledge of national cyber crime, both state-sponsored and otherwise, outlined the current situation in this area. A former senior intelligence officer divided Russian state-sponsored offensive cyber operations into four categories (in order of priority):- targeting foreign, especially western governments; penetrating leading foreign business corporations, especially banks; domestic monitoring of the elite; and attacking political opponents both at home and abroad. The former intelligence officer reported that the Federal Security Service (FSB) was the lead organization within the Russian state apparatus for cyber operations.
In terms of the success of Russian offensive cyber operations to date, a senior government figure reported that there had been only limited success in penetrating the ‘first tier’ foreign targets. These comprised western (especially G7 and NATO) governments, security and intelligence services and central banks, and the IFIs. To compensate for this shortfall, massive effort had been invested, with much greater success, in attacking the “secondary targets”, particularly western private banks and the governments of smaller states allied to the West. S/he mentioned Latvia in this regard. Hundreds of agents, either consciously cooperating with the FSB or whose personal and professional IT systems had been unwittingly compromised, were recruited. Many were people who had ethnic and family ties to Russia and/or had been incentivized financially to cooperate. Such people often would receive monetary inducements or contractual favours from the Russian state or its agents in return. This had created difficulties for parts of the Russian state apparatus in obliging/indulging them e.g. the Central Bank of Russia knowingly having to cover up for such agents’ money laundering operations through the Russian financial system.
In terms of the FSB’s recruitment of capable cyber operatives to carry out its, ideally deniable, offensive cyber operations, a Russian IT specialist with direct knowledge reported in June 2016 that this was often done using coercion and blackmail. In terms of ‘foreign’ agents, the FSB was approaching US citizens of Russian (Jewish) origin on business trips to Russia. In one case a US citizen of Russian ethnicity had been visiting Moscow to attract investors in his new information technology program. The FSB clearly knew this and had offered to provide seed capital to this person in return for them being able to access and modify his IP, with a view to targeting priority foreign targets by planting a Trojan virus in the software. The US visitor was told this was common practice. The FSB also had implied significant operational success as a result of installing cheap Russian IT games containing their own malware unwittingly by targets on their PCs and other platforms.
In a more advanced and successful FSB operation, an IT operator inside a leading Russian SOE, who previously had been employed on conventional (defensive) IT work there, had been under instruction for the last year to conduct an offensive cyber operation against a foreign director of the company. Although the latter was apparently an infrequent visitor to Russia, the FSB now successfully had penetrated his personal IT and through this had managed to access various important institutions in the West through the back door.
In terms of other technical IT platforms, an FSB cyber operative flagged up the ‘Telegram’ enciphered commercial system as having been of especial concern and therefore heavily targeted by the FSB, not least because it was used frequently by Russian internal political activists and oppositionists. His/her understanding was that the FSB now successfully had cracked this communications software and therefore it was no longer secure to use.
The senior Russian government figure cited above also reported that non-state sponsored cyber crime was becoming an increasing problem inside Russia for the government and authorities there. The Central Bank of Russia claimed that in 2015 alone there had been more than 20 attempts at serious cyber embezzlement of money from corresponding accounts held there, comprising several billions Roubles. More generally, s/he understood there were circa 15 major organised crime groups in the country involved in cyber crime, all of which continued to operate largely outside state and FSB control. These included the so-called ‘Anunak’, ‘Buktrap’ and ‘Metel’ organisations.
26 July 2015

COMPANY INTELLIGENCE REPORT 2016/095

RUSSIA/US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: FURTHER INDICATIONS OF EXTENSIVE CONSPIRACY BETWEEN TRUMP’S CAMPAIGN TEAM AND THE KREMLIN

Summary

-Further evidence of extensive conspiracy between campaign team and Kremlin, sanctioned at highest levels and involving Russian diplomatic staff based in the US

-TRUMP associate admits Kremlin behind recent appearance of DNC e-mails on WikiLeaks, as means of maintaining plausible deniability

-Agreed exchange of information established in both directions. TRUMP’s team using moles within DNC and hackers in the US as well as outside in Russia. PUTIN motivated by fear and hatred of Hillary CLINTON. Russians receiving intel from TRUMP’S team on Russian oligarchs and their families in US

-Mechanism for transmitting this intelligence involves ‘pension’ disbursements to Russian emigres living in US as cover, using consular officials in New York, DC and Miami

-Suggestion from source close to TRUMP and MANAFORT that Republican campaign team happy to have Russia as media bogeyman to mask more extensive corrupt business ties to China and other emerging countries

Detail

Speaking in confidence to a compatriot in late July 2016, Source E, an ethnic Russian close associate of Republican US presidential candidate Donald Trump, admitted that there was a well-developed conspiracy of co-operation between them and the Russian leadership. This was managed on the TRUMP side by the Republican candidate’s campaign manager, Paul MANAFORT, who was using foreign policy advisor, Carter PAGE, and others as intermediaries. The two sides had a mutual interest in defeating Democratic presidential candidate Hillary CLINTON, whom President PUTIN apparently both hated and feared.
Inter alia, Source E, acknowledged that the Russian regime had been behind the recent leak of embarrassing e-mail messages, emanating from the Democratic National Committee (DNC), to the WikiLeaks platform. The reason for using WikiLeaks was “plausible deniability” and the operation had been conducted with the full knowledge and support of TRUMP and senior members of his campaign team. In return the TRUMP team had agreed to sideline Russian intervention in Ukraine as a campaign issue and to raise US/NATO defense commitments in the Baltics and Eastern Europe to deflect attention away from Ukraine, a priority for PUTIN who needed to cauterise the subject.
In the wider context of TRUMP campaign/Kremlin co-operation, Source E claimed that the intelligence network being used against CLINTON comprised three elements. Firstly there were agents/facilitators within the Democratic Party structure itself; secondly Russian emigre and associated offensive cyber operators based in the U.S.; and thirdly, state- sponsored cyber operatives working in Russia. All three elements had played an important role to date. On the mechanism for rewarding relevant assets based in the US, and effecting a two-way flow of intelligence and other useful information, Source E claimed that Russian diplomatic staff in key cities such as New York, Washington DC and Miami were using the ’emigre’ ‘pension’ distribution system as cover. The operation therefore depended on key people in the US Russian emigre community for its success. Tens of thousands of dollars were involved.
In terms of the intelligence flow from the Trump team to Russia, Source E reported that much of this concerned the activities of business oligarchs and their families’ activities and assets in the US, with which Putin and the Kremlin seemed preoccupied.
Commenting on the negative media publicity surrounding alleged Russian interference in the U.S. election campaign in support of Trump, Source E said he understood that the Republican candidate and his team were relatively relaxed about this because it deflected media and the Democrats’ attention away from Trump’s business dealings in China and other emerging markets. Unlike in Russia, these were substantial and involved the payment of large bribes and kickbacks which, were they to become public, would be potentially very damaging to their campaign.
Finally, regarding TRUMP’s claimed minimal investment profile in Russia, a separate source with direct knowledge said this had not been for want of trying. TRUMP’s previous efforts had included exploring the real estate sector in St Petersburg as well as Moscow but in the end TRUMP had had to settle for the use of [REDACTED BY THE MOSCOW PROJECT] rather than business success.
COMPANY INTELLIGENCE REPORT 2016/94

RUSSIA: SECRET KREMLIN MEETINGS ATTENDED BY TRUMP ADVISOR, CARTER PAGE IN MOSCOW (JULY 2016)

Summary

-TRUMP advisor Carter PAGE holds secret meetings in Moscow with SECHIN and senior Kremlin Internal Affairs official, DIVYEKIN

–SECHIN raises issues of future bilateral US-Russia energy co-operation and associated lifting of western sanctions against Russia over Ukraine. PAGE non-committal in response

–DIVEYKIN discusses release of Russian dossier of ‘kompromat’ on TRUMP’s opponent, Hillary CLINTON, but also hints at Kremlin possession of such material on TRUMP

Detail

Speaking in July 2016, a Russian source close to Rosneft President, PUTIN close associate and US-sanctioned individual, Igor SECHIN, confided the details of a recent secret meeting between him and visiting Foreign Affairs Advisor to Republican presidential candidate Donald TRUMP, Carter PAGE.
According to SECHIN’s associate, the Rosneft President (CEO) had raised with PAGE the issues of future bilateral energy cooperation and prospects for an associated move to lift Ukraine-related western sanctions against Russia. PAGE had reacted positively to this demarche by SECHIN but had been generally non-committal in response.
Speaking separately, also in July 2016, an official close to Presidential Administration Head, IVANOV, confided in a compatriot that a senior colleague in the Internal Political Department of the PA, DIVYEKIN (nfd) also had met secretly with PAGE on his recent visit. Their agenda had included DIVEYKIN raising a dossier of ‘kompromat’ the Kremlin possessed on Democratic presidential rival, Hillary CLINTON, and its possible release to the Republican’s campaign team.
However, the Kremlin official close to IVANOV added that s/he believed DIVEYKIN also had hinted (or indicated more strongly) that the Russian leadership also had ‘kompromat’ on TRUMP which the latter should bear in mind in his dealings with them.
19 July 2016

COMPANY INTELLIGENCE REPORT 2016/097

RUSSIA-US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: KREMLIN CONCERN THAT POLITICAL FALLOUT FROM DNC E-MAIL HACKING AFFAIR SPIRALLING OUT OF CONTROL

Summary

-Kremlin concerned that political fallout from DNC e-mail hacking operation is spiraling out of control. Extreme nervousness among TRUMP’s associates as result of negative media attention/accusations

-Russians meanwhile keen to cool situation and maintain ‘plausible deniability’ of existing /ongoing pro-TRUMP and anti-CLINTON operations. Therefore unlikely to be any ratcheting up offensive plays in immediate future

-Source close to TRUMP campaign however confirms regular exchange with Kremlin has existed for at least 8 years, including intelligence fed back to Russia on oligarchs’ activities in US

-Russians apparently have promised not to use ‘kompromat’ they hold on TRUMP as leverage, given high levels of voluntary co-operation forthcoming from his team

Detail

Speaking in confidence to a trusted associate in late July 2016, a Russian emigre figure close to the Republican US presidential candidate Donald TRUMP’s campaign team commented on the fallout from publicity surrounding the Democratic National Committee (DNC) e-mail hacking scandal. The emigre said there was a high level of anxiety within the TRUMP team as a result of various accusations levelled against them and indications from the Kremlin that President PUTIN and others in the leadership thought things had gone too far now and risked spiralling out of control.
Continuing on this theme, the emigre associate of TRUMP opined that the Kremlin wanted the situation to calm but for ‘plausible deniability’ to be maintained concerning its (extensive) pro-TRUMP and anti-CLINTON operations. S/he therefore judged that it was unlikely these would be ratcheted up, at least for the time being.
However, in terms of established operational liaison between the TRUMP team and the Kremlin, the emigre confirmed that an intelligence exchange had been running between them for at least 8 years. Within this context PUTIN’s priority requirement had been for intelligence on the activities, business and otherwise, in the US of leading Russian oligarchs and their families. TRUMP and his associates duly had obtained and supplied the Kremlin with this information.
Finally, the emigre said s/he understood the Kremlin had more intelligence on CLINTON and her campaign but he did not know the details or when or if it would be released. As far as ‘kompromat’ (compromising information) on TRUMP were concerned, although there was plenty of this, he understood the Kremlin had given its word that it would not be deployed against the Republican presidential candidate given how helpful and co-operative his team had been over several years, and particularly of late.
30 July 2016

COMPANY INTELLIGENCE REPORT 2016/100

RUSSIA/USA GROWING BACKLASH IN KREMLIN TO DNC HACKING AND TRUMP SUPPORT OPERATIONS

Summary

-Head of PA IVANOV laments Russian intervention in US presidential election and black PR against CLINTON and the DNC. Vows not to supply intelligence to Kremlin PR operatives again. Advocates now sitting tight and denying everything

-Presidential spokesman PESKOV the main protagonist in Kremlin campaign to aid TRUMP and damage CLINTON. He is now scared and fears being made scapegoat by leadership for backlash in US. Problem compounded by his botched intervention in recent Turkish crisis

-Premier MEDVEDEV’s office furious over DNC hacking and associated anti-Russian publicity. Want good relations with US and ability to travel there. Refusing to support or help cover up after PESKOV

-Talk now in Kremlin of TRUMP withdrawing from presidential race altogether, but this still largely wishful thinking by more liberal elements in Moscow

Detail

Speaking in early August 2016, two well-placed and established Kremlin sources outlined the divisions and backlash in Moscow arising from the leaking of Democratic National Committee (DNC) e-mails and the wider pro-TRUMP operation being conducted in the US. Head of Presidential Administration, Sergei IVANOV, was angry at the recent turn of events. He believed the Kremlin “team” involved, led by presidential spokesman Dmitriy PESKOV, had gone too far in interfering in foreign affairs with their “elephant in a china shop black PR”. IVANOV claimed always to have opposed the handling and exploitation of intelligence by this PR “team”. Following the backlash against such foreign interference in US politics, IVANOV was advocating that the only sensible course of action now for the Russian leadership was to “sit tight and deny everything”.
Continuing on this theme the source close to IVANOV reported that PESKOV now was “scared shitless” that he would be scapegoated by PUTIN and the Kremlin and held responsible for the backlash against Russian political interference in the US election. IVANOV was determined to stop PESKOV playing an independent role in relation to the US going forward and the source fully expected the presidential spokesman now to lay low. PESKOV’s position was not helped by a botched attempt by him also to interfere in the recent failed coup in Turkey from a government relations (GR) perspective (no further details).
The extent of disquiet and division within Moscow caused by the backlash against Russian interference in the US election was underlined by a second source, close to premier Dmitriy MEDVEDEV (DAM). S/he said the Russian prime minister and his colleagues wanted to have good relations with the US, regardless of who was in power there, and not least so as to be able to travel there in future, either officially or privately. They were openly refusing to cover up for PESKOV and others involved in the DNC/TRUMP operations or to support his counter-attack of allegations against the USG for its alleged hacking of the Russian government and state agencies.
According to the first source, close to IVANOV, there had been talk in the Kremlin of TRUMP being forced to withdraw from the presidential race altogether as a result of recent events, ostensibly on grounds of his state and unsuitability for high office. This might not be so bad for Russia in the circumstances but in the view of the source, it remained largely wishful thinking on the part of those in the regime opposed to PESKOV and his “botched” operations, at least for the time being.
5 August 2016

COMPANY INTELLIGENCE REPORT 2016/101

RUSSIA/US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: SENIOR KREMLIN FIGURE OUTLINES EVOLVING RUSSIAN TACTICS IN PRO-TRUMP, ANTI-CLINTON OPERATION

Summary

-Head of PA, IVANOV assesses Kremlin intervention in US presidential election and outlines leadership thinking on operational way forward

-No new leaks envisaged, as too politically risky, but rather further exploitation of (Wiki Leaks) material already disseminated to exacerbate divisions

-Educated US youth to be targeted as protest (against CLINTON) and swing vote in attempt to turn them over to TRUMP

-Russian leadership, including PUTIN, celebrating perceived success to date in splitting US hawks and elite

-Kremlin engaging with several high profile US players, including STEIN, PAGE and (former DIA Director Michael Flynn), and funding their recent visits to Moscow

Details

Speaking in confidence to a close colleague in early August 2016, Head of the Russian Presidential Administration (PA), Sergei IVANOV, assessed the impact and results of Kremlin intervention in the US presidential election to date. Although most commentators believed that the Kremlin was behind the leaked DNC/CLINTON e-mails, this remained technically deniable. Therefore the Russians would not risk their position for the time being with new leaked material, even to a third party like WikiLeaks. Rather the tactics would be to spread rumours and misinformation about the content of what already had been leaked and make up new content.
Continuing on this theme, IVANOV said that the audience to be targeted by such operations was the educated youth in America as the PA assessed that there was still a chance they could be persuaded to vote for Republican candidate Donald TRUMP as a protest against the Washington establishment (in the form of Democratic candidate Hillary CLINTON). The hope was that even if she won, as a result of this CLINTON in power would be bogged down in working for internal reconciliation in the US, rather than being able to focus on foreign policy which would damage Russia’s interests. This also should give President PUTIN more room for manoeuvre in the run-up to Russia’s own presidential election in 2018.
IVANOV reported that although the Kremlin had underestimated the strength of US media and liberal reaction to the DNC hack and TRUMP’s links to Russia, PUTIN was generally satisfied with the progress of the anti-CLINTON operation to date. He recently had had a drink with PUTIN to mark this. In IVANOV’s view, the US had tried to divide the Russian elite with sanctions but failed, whilst they, by contrast, had succeeded in splitting the US hawks inimical to Russia and the Washington elite more generally, half of whom had refused to endorse any presidential candidates a result of Russian intervention.
Speaking separately, also in early August 2016, a Kremlin official involved in US relations commented on aspects of the Russian operation to date. Its goals had been threefold- asking sympathetic US actors how Moscow could help them; gathering relevant intelligence; and creating and disseminating compromising information (‘kompromat’). This had involved the Kremlin supporting various US political figures, including funding indirectly their recent visits to Moscow. S/he named a delegation from Lyndon LAROUCHE; presidential candidate Jill STEIN of the Green Party; TRUMP foreign policy adviser carter PAGE; and former DIA Director Michael Flynn, in this regard as successful in terms of perceived outcomes.
10 August 2016

COMPANY INTELLIGENCE REPORT 2016/102

RUSSIA/US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: REACTION IN TRUMP CAMP TO RECENT NEGATIVE PUBLICITY ABOUT RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE AND LIKELY RESULTING TACTICS GOING FORWARD

Summary

-TRUMP campaign insider reports recent DNC e-mail leaks were aimed at switching SANDERS (protest) voters away from CLINTON and over to TRUMP

-Admits Republican campaign underestimated resulting negative reaction from US liberals, elite and media and forced to change course as result

-Need now to turn tables on CLINTON’s use of PUTIN as bogeyman in election, although some resentment at Russian president’s perceived attempt to undermine USG and system over and above swinging presidential election

Detail

Speaking in confidence on 9 August 2016, an ethnic Russian associate of Republican US presidential candidate Donald TRUMP discussed the reaction inside his camp, and revised tactics therein resulting from recent negative publicity concerning Moscow’s clandestine involvement in the campaign. TRUMP’s associate reported that the aim of leaking the DNC e-mails to WikiLeaks during the Democratic Convention had been to swing supporters of Bernie SANDERS away from Hillary CLINTON and across to TRUMP. These voters were perceived as activist and anti-status quo and anti-establishment and in that regard sharing many features with the TRUMP campaign, including a visceral dislike of Hillary CLINTON. This objective had been conceived and promoted, inter alia, by TRUMP’s foreign policy adviser Carter PAGE who had discussed it directly with the ethnic Russian associate.
Continuing on this theme, the ethnic Russian associate of TRUMP assessed that the problem was that the TRUMP campaign had underestimated the strength of the negative reaction from liberals and especially the conservative elite to Russian interference. This was forcing a rethink and a likely change of tactics. The main objective in the short term was to check Democratic candidate Hillary CLINTON’s successful exploitation of the PUTIN as bogeyman/Russian interference story to tarnish TRUMP and bolster her own (patriotic) credentials. The TRUMP campaign was focusing on tapping into support in the American television media to achieve this, as they reckoned this resource had been underused by them to date.
However, TRUMP’s associate also admitted that there was a fair amount of anger and resentment within the Republican candidate’s team at what was perceived by PUTIN as going beyond the objective of weakening CLINTON and bolstering TRUMP, by attempting to exploit the situation to undermine the US government and democratic system more generally. It was unclear at present how this aspect of the situation would play out in the weeks to come.
10 August 2016

COMPANY INTELLIGENCE REPORT 2016/136

RUSSIA/US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: FURTHER DETAILS OF TRUMP LAWYER COHEN’S SECRET LIAISON WITH THE KREMLIN

Summary

-Kremlin insider reports TRUMP lawyer COHEN’s secret meeting/s with Kremlin officials in August 2016 was/were held in Prague

-Russian parastatal organisation Rossotrudnichestvo used as cover for this liaison and premises in Czech capital may have been used for the meeting/s

-Pro-Putin leading Duma figure, KOSACHEV, reportedly involved as “plausibly deniable” facilitator and may have participated in the August meeting/s with COHEN

Detail

Speaking to a compatriot and friend on 19 October 2016, a Kremlin insider provided further details of reported clandestine meeting/s between Republican presidential candidate, Donald TRUMP’s lawyer Michael COHEN and Kremlin representatives in August 2016. Although the communication between them had to be cryptic for security reasons, the Kremlin insider clearly indicated to his/ her friend that the reported contact/s took place in Prague, Czech Republic.
Continuing on this theme, the Kremlin insider highlighted the importance of the Russian parastatal organisation, Rossotrudnichestvo, in this contact between TRUMP campaign representative/s and Kremlin officials. Rossotrudnichestvo was being used as cover for this relationship and its office in Prague may well have been used to host the COHEN / Russian Presidential Administration (PA) meeting/s. It was considered a “plausibly deniable” vehicle for this, whilst remaining entirely under Kremlin control.
The Kremlin insider went on to identify leading pro-PUTIN Duma figure, Konstantin KOSACHEV (Head of the Foreign Relations Committee) as an important figure in the TRUMP campaign-Kremlin liaison operation. KOSACHEV, also “plausibly deniable” being part of the Russian legislature rather than executive, had facilitated the contact in Prague and by implication, may have attended the meeting/s with COHEN there in August.
Company Comment

We reported previously, in our Company Intelligence Report 2016/135 of 19 October 2016 from the same source, that COHEN met officials from the PA Legal Department clandestinely in an EU country in August 2016. This was in order to clean up the mess left behind by western media revelations of TRUMP ex-campaign manager MANAFORT’s corrupt relationship with the former pro-Russian YANUKOVYCH regime in Ukraine and TRUMP foreign policy advisor, Carter PAGE’s secret meetings in Moscow with senior regime figures in July 2016. According to the Kremlin advisor, these meeting/s were originally scheduled for COHEN in Moscow but shifted to what was considered an operationally “soft” EU country when it was judged too compromising for him to travel to the Russian capital.

20 October 2016

COMPANY INTELLIGENCE REPORT 2016/105

RUSSIA/UKRAINE: THE DEMISE OF TRUMP’S CAMPAIGN MANAGER PAUL MANAFORT

Summary

-Ex-Ukrainian President YANUKOVYCH confides directly to PUTIN that he authorised kick-back payments to MANAFORT, as alleged in western media. Assures Russian President however there is no documentary evidence/trail

–PUTIN and Russian leadership remain worried however and skeptical that YANUKOVYCH has fully covered the traces of these payments to TRUMP’s former campaign manager

-Close associate of TRUMP explains reasoning behind MANAFORT’s recent resignation. Ukraine revelations played part but others wanted MANAFORT out for various reasons, especially LEWANDOWSKI who remains influential

Detail

Speaking in late August 2016, in the immediate aftermath of Paul MANAFORT’s resignation as campaign manager for US Republican presidential candidate Donald TRUMP, a well-placed Russian figure reported on a recent meeting between President PUTIN and ex-President YANUKOVYCH of Ukraine. This had been held in secret on 15 August near Volgograd, Russia and the western media revelations about MANAFORT and Ukraine had featured prominently on the agenda. YANUKOVYCH had confided in PUTIN that he did authorise and order substantial kick-back payments to MANAFORT as alleged but sought to reassure him that there was no documentary trail left behind which could provide clear evidence of this.
Given YANUKOVYCH’s (unimpressive) record in covering up his own corrupt tracks in the past, PUTIN and others in the Russian leadership were sceptical about the ex-Ukrainian president’s reassurances on this as relating to MANAFORT. They therefore still feared the scandal had legs, especially as MANAFORT had been commercially active in Ukraine right up to the time (in March 2016) when he joined TRUMP’s campaign team. For them it therefore remained a point of potential political vulnerability and embarrassment.
Speaking separately, also in late August 2016, an American political figure associated with Donald TRUMP and his campaign outlined the reasons behind MANAFORT’s recent demise. S/he said it was true that the Ukraine corruption revelations had played a part in this but also, several senior players close to TRUMP had wanted MANAFORT out, primarily to loosen his control on strategy and policy formulation. Of particular importance in this regard was MANAFORT’s predecessor as campaign manager, Corey LEWANDOWSKI, who hated MANAFORT personally and remained close to TRUMP with whom he discussed the presidential campaign on a regular basis.
22 August 2016

COMPANY INTELLIGENCE REPORT 2016/111

RUSSIA/US: KREMLIN FALLOUT FROM MEDIA EXPOSURE OF MOSCOW’S INTERFERENCE IN THE US PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN

Summary

-Kremlin orders senior staff to remain silent in media and private on allegations of Russian interference in US presidential campaign

-Senior figure however confirms gist of allegations and reports IVANOV sacked as Head of Administration on account of giving PUTIN poor advice on issue. VAINO selected as his replacement partly because he was not involved in Pro-TRUMP, anti-CLINTON operation/s

-Russians do have further ‘kompromat’ on CLINTON (e-mails) and considering disseminating it after Duma (legislative elections) in late September. Presidential spokesman PESKOV continues to lead on this

-However, equally important is Kremlin objective to shift policy consensus favourably to Russia in US post-OBAMA whoever wins. Both presidential candidates’ opposition to TPP and TTIP viewed as a result in this respect

-Senior Russian diplomat withdrawn from Washington embassy on account of potential exposure in US presidential election operation/s

Detail

Speaking in confidence to a trusted compatriot in mid-September 2016, a senior member of the Russian Presidential Administration (PA) commented on the political fallout from recent western media revelations about Moscow’s intervention, in favour of Donald TRUMP and against Hillary CLINTON, in the US presidential election. The PA official reported that the issue had become incredibly sensitive and that President PUTIN had issued direct orders that Kremlin and government insiders should not discuss it in public or even in private.
Despite this, the PA official confirmed, from direct knowledge, that the gist of the allegations was true. PUTIN had been receiving conflicting advice on interfering from three separate and expert groups. On one side had been the Russian ambassador to the US, Sergei KISLYAK and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, together with an independent and informal network run by presidential foreign policy advisor, Yuri USHAKOV (KISLYAK’s predecessor in Washington) who had urged caution and the potential negative impact on Russia from the operation/s. On the other side was former PA Head, Sergei IVANOV, backed by Russian Foreign Intelligence (SVR), who had advised PUTIN that the pro-TRUMP, anti-CLINTON operation/s would be both effective and plausibly deniable with little blowback. The first group/s had been proven right and this had been the catalyst in PUTIN’s decision to sack IVANOV (unexpectedly) as PA Head in August. His successor, Anton VAINO, had been selected for the job partly because he had not been involved in the US presidential election operation/s.
Continuing on this theme, the senior PA official said the situation now was that the Kremlin had further ‘kompromat’ on candidate CLINTON and had been considering releasing this via “plausibly deniable” channels after the Duma (legislative) elections were out of the way in mid- September. There was however a growing train of thought and associated lobby, arguing that the Russians could still make candidate CLINTON look ‘weak and stupid’ by provoking her into railing against PUTIN and Russia without the need to release more of her e-mails. Presidential Spokesman, Dmitriy PESKOV remained a key figure in the operation, although any final decision on dissemination of further material would be taken by PUTIN
The senior PA official also reported that a growing element in Moscow’s intervention in the US presidential election campaign was the objective of shifting the US political consensus in Russia’s perceived interests regardless of who won. It basically comprised of pushing candidate CLINTON away from President OBAMA’s policies. The best example of this was that both candidates now openly opposed the draft trade agreements, TPP and TTIP, which were assessed by Moscow as detrimental to Russian interests. Other issues where the Kremlin was looking to shift the US policy consensus were Ukraine and Syria. Overall however, the presidential election was considered still to be too close to call.
Finally, speaking separately to the same compatriot, a senior Russian MFA official reported that as a prophylactic measure, a leading Russian diplomat, Mikhail KULAGIN, had been withdrawn from Washington at short notice because Moscow feared his heavy involvement-in the US presidential election operation, including the so-called veterans’ pensions ruse (reported previously), would be exposed in the media there. His replacement, Andrei BONDAREV however was clean in this regard.
Company Comment

The substance of what was reported by the senior Russian PA official in paras 1 and 2 above, including the reasons for Sergei IVANOV’s dismissal, was corroborated independently by a former top level Russian intelligence officer and Kremlin insider, also in mid-September.

14 September 2016

COMPANY INTELLIGENCE REPORT 2016/112

PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: KREMLIN-ALPHA GROUP OPERATION (SEPTEMBER 14, 2016)

Summary

-Top level Russian official confirms current closeness of Alpha Group-PUTIN relationship. Significant favours continue to be done in both directions and FRIDMAN and AVEN still giving informal advice to PUTIN, especially on the US

-Key intermediary in PUTIN-Alpha relationship identified as Oleg GOVORUN, currently Head of a Presidential Administration department but throughout the 1990s, the Alpha executive who delivered illicit cash directly to PUTIN

–PUTIN personally unbothered about Alpha’s current lack of investment in Russia but under pressure from colleagues over this and able to exploit it as lever over Alpha interlocutors

Detail

Speaking to a trusted compatriot in mid-September 2016, a top level Russian government Official commented on the history and current state of relations between President PUTIN and the Alpha Group of businesses led by oligarchs Mikhail FRIDMAN, Petr AVEN and German KHAN. The Russian government figure reported that although they had had their ups and downs, the leading figures in Alpha currently were on very good terms with PUTIN. Significant favours continued to be done in both directions, primarily political ones for PUTIN and business/legal ones for Alpha. Also, RIDMAN and AVEN continued to give informal advice to PUTIN on foreign policy, and especially about the US where he distrusted advice being given to him by officials.
Although FRIDMAN recently had met directly with PUTIN in Russia, much of the dialogue and business between them was mediated through a senior Presidential Administration Official, Oleg GOVORUN, who currently headed the department therein responsible for Social Co-operation with the CIS. GOVORUN was trusted by PUTIN and recently had accompanied him to Uzbekistan to pay respects at the tomb of former president KARIMOV. However according to the top level Russian government official, during the 1990s GOVORUN had been Head of Government Relations at Alpha Group and in reality, the ‘driver’ and ‘bag carrier’ used by FRIDMAN and AVEN to deliver large amounts of illicit cash to the Russian president, at that time deputy Mayor of St Petersburg. Given that and the continuing sensitivity of the relationship, and need for plausible deniability, much of the contact between them was now indirect and entrusted to the relatively low profile GOVORUN.
The top level Russian government official described the PUTlN-Alpha relationship as both carrot and stick. Alpha held ‘kompromat’ on PUTIN and his corrupt business activities from the 1990s whilst although not personally overly bothered by Alpha’s failure to reinvest the proceeds of its TNK oil company sale into the Russian economy since, the Russian president was able to use pressure on this count from senior Kremlin colleagues as a lever on FRIDMAN and AVEN to make them do his political bidding.
14 September 2016

COMPANY INTELLIGENCE REPROT 2016/113

PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE PRIOR ACTIVITIES IN ST. PETERSBURG

Summary

-Two knowledgeable St Petersburg sources claim Republican candidate TRUMP has [REDACTED BY THE MOSCOW PROJECT] there but key witnesses silenced and evidence hard to obtain

-Both believe Azeri business associate of TRUMP, Araz AGALAROV will know the details

Detail

Speaking to a trusted compatriot in September 2016, two well-placed sources based in St Petersburg, one in the political/business elite and the other involved in the local services and tourist industry, commented on Republican US presidential candidate Donald TRUMP’s prior activities in the city.
Both knew TRUMP had visited St Petersburg on several occasions in the past and had been interested in doing business deals there involving real estate. The local business/ political elite figure reported that TRUMP had paid bribes there to further his interests but very discreetly and only through affiliated companies, making it very hard to prove. The local services industry source reported that TRUMP had participated in [REDACTED BY THE MOSCOW PROJECT], but that all direct witnesses to this recently had been ‘silenced’ i.e. bribed or coerced to disappear.
The two St Petersburg figures cited believed an Azeri business figure, Araz AGALAROV (with offices in Baku and London) had been closely involved with TRUMP in Russia and would know most of the details of what the Republican presidential candidate had got up to there.
14 September 2016

COMPANY INTELLIGENCE REPORT 2016/130

RUSSIA: KREMLIN ASSESSMENT OF TRUMP AND RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE IN US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION

Summary

-Buyer’s remorse sets in with Kremlin over TRUMP support operation in US presidential election. Russian leadership disappointed that leaked e-malls on CLINTON have not had greater impact in campaign

-Russians have injected further anti-CLINTON material into the ‘plausibly deniable’ leaks pipeline which will continue to surface, but best material already in public domain

–PUTIN angry with senior officials who ‘overpromised’ on TRUMP and further heads likely to roll as result. Foreign Minister LAVROV may be next

-TRUMP supported by Kremlin because seen as divisive, anti-establishment candidate who would shake up current International status quo in Russia’s favor. Lead on TRUMP operation moved from Foreign Ministry to FSB and then to presidential administration where it now sits

Detail

Speaking separately in confidence to a trusted compatriot in early October 2016, a senior Russian leadership figure and a Foreign Ministry official reported on recent developments concerning the Kremlin’s operation to support Republican candidate Donald TRUMP in the US presidential election. The senior leadership figure said that a degree of buyer’s remorse was setting in among Russian leaders concerning TRUMP. PUTIN and his colleagues were surprised and disappointed that leaks of Democratic candidate, Hillary CLINTON’s hacked e-mails had not had greater impact on the campaign.
Continuing on this theme, the senior leadership figure commented that a stream of further hacked CLINTON material already had been injected by the Kremlin into compliant western media outlets like Wikileaks, which remained at least ‘plausibly deniable’, so the stream of these would continue through October and up to the election. However s/he understood that the best material the Russians had already was out and there were no real game-changers to come.
The Russian Foreign Ministry official, who had direct access to the TRUMP support operation, reported that PUTIN was angry at his subordinate’s ‘over-promising’ on the Republican presidential candidate, both in terms of his chances and reliability and being able to cover and/or contain the US backlash over Kremlin interference. More heads therefore were likely to roll, with the MFA the easiest target. Ironically, despite his consistent urging of caution on the issue, Foreign Minister LAVROV could be the next one to go.
Asked to explain why PUTIN and the Kremlin had launched such an aggressive TRUMP support operation in the first place, the MFA official said that Russia needed to upset the liberal international status quo, including on Ukraine-related sanctions, which was seriously disadvantaging the country. TRUMP was viewed as divisive in disrupting the whole US political system; anti-Establishment; and a pragmatist with whom they could do business. As the TRUMP support operation had gained momentum, control of it had passed from the MFA to the FSB and then into the presidential administration where it remained, a reflection of its growing significance over time. There was still a view in the Kremlin that TRUMP would continue as a (divisive) political force even if he lost the presidency and may run for and be elected to another public office.
12 October 2016

COMPANY INTELLIGENCE REPORT 2016/134

RUSSIA/US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: FURTHER DETAILS OF KREMLIN LIAISON WITH TRUMP CAMPAIGN

Summary

-Close associate of SECHIN confirms his secret meeting in Moscow with Carter PAGE in July

-Substance included offer of large stake in Rosneft in return for lifting sanctions on Russia. PAGE confirms this is TRUMP’s intention

–SECHIN continued to think TRUMP would win presidency up to l7 October. Now looking to reorient his engagement with the US

-Kremlin insider highlights importance of TRUMP’s lawyer, Michael COHEN in covert relationship with Russia. COHEN’s wife is of Russian descent and her father a leading property developer in Moscow

Detail

Speaking to a trusted compatriot in mid October 2015, a close associate of Rosneft President and PUTIN ally Igor SECHIN elaborated on the reported secret meeting between the latter and Carter PAGE, of US Republican presidential candidate’s foreign policy team, in Moscow in July 2016. The secret had been confirmed to him/her by a senior member of staff, in addition to by the Rosneft President himself. It took place on either 7 or 8 July, the same day or the one after Carter PAGE made a public speech to the Higher Economic School in Moscow
In terms of the substance of their discussion, SECHIN’s associate said that the Rosneft President was so keen to lift personal and corporate western sanctions imposed on the company, that he offered PAGE/TRUMP’s associates the brokerage of up to a 19 per cent (privatised) stake in Rosneft in return. PAGE had expressed interest and confirmed that were TRUMP elected US president, then sanctions on Russia would be lifted.
According to SECHIN’s close associate, the Rosneft President had continued to believe that TRUMP could win the US presidency right up to 17 October, when he assessed this was no longer possible, SECHIN was keen to readapt accordingly and put feelers out to other business and political contacts in the US instead.
Speaking separately to the same compatriot in mid-October 2016, a Kremlin insider with direct access to the leadership confirmed that a key role in the secret TRUMP campaign / Kremlin relationship was being played by the Republican candidates personal lawyer Michael COHEN. [REDACTED BY BUZZFEED NEWS]
Source Comment

5. SECHIN’s associated opined that although PAGE had not stated it explicitly to SECHIN, he had clearly implied that in terms of his comment on TRUMP’s intention to lift Russian sanctions if elected president, he was speaking with the Republican candidate’s full authority.

Company Comment 6.

6.[REDACTED BY THE MOSCOW PROJECT]

18 October 2016

COMPANY INTELLIGENCE REPORT 2016/135

RUSSIA/US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: THE IMPORTANT ROLE OF TRUMP LAWYER, COHEN IN SECRET LIASON WITH THE KREMLIN

Summary

-Kremlin insider outlines important role played by lawyer COHEN in secret liaison with Russian leadership

–COHEN engaged with Russians in trying to cover up scandal of MANAFORT and exposure of PAGE and meets Kremlin officials secretly in the EU in August in pursuit of this goal

-These secret contacts continue but are now farmed out to trusted agents in Kremlin-linked institutes so as to remain “plausibly deniable” for Russian regime

-Further confirmation that sacking of IVANOV and appointments of VAINO and KIRIYENKO linked to need to cover up Kremlin’s TRUMP support operation

Detail

Speaking in confidence to a longstanding compatriot friend in mid-October 2016, a Kremlin insider highlighted the importance of Republican presidential candidate Donald TRUMP’s lawyer, Michael COHEN, in the ongoing secret liaison relationship between the New York tycoon’s campaign and the Russian leadership. COHEN’s role had grown following the departure of Paul MANNAFORT as campaign manager in August 2016. Prior to that MANNAFORT had led for the TRUMP side.
According to the Kremlin insider, COHEN now was heavily engaged in a cover up and damage limitation operation in the attempt to prevent the full details of TRUMP’s relationship with Russia being exposed. In pursuit of this aim, COHEN had met secretly with several Russian Presidential Administration (PA) Legal Department officials in an EU country in August 2016. The immediate issues had been to contain further scandals involving MANNAFORT’s commercial and political role in Russia/Ukraine and to limit the damage arising from exposure of former TRUMP foreign policy advisor, Carter PAGE’s secret meetings with Russian leadership figures in Moscow the previous month. The overall objective had been to “to sweep it all under the carpet and make sure no connections could be fully established or proven”
Things had become even “hotter” since August on the TRUMP-Russia track. According to the Kremlin insider, this had meant that direct contact between the TRUMP team and Russia had been farmed out by the Kremlin to trusted agents of influence working in pro-government policy institutes like that of Law and Comparative Jurisprudence. COHEN however continued to lead for the TRUMP team.
Referring back to the (surprise) sacking of Sergei IVANOV as Head of PA in August 2016, his replacement by Anton VAINO and the appointment of former Russian premier Sergei KIRIYENKO to another senior position in the PA, the Kremlin insider repeated that this had been directly connected to the TRUMP support operation and the need to cover up now that it was being exposed by the USG and in the western media.
Company Comment

The Kremlin insider was unsure of the identities of the PA officials with whom COHEN met secretly in August, or the exact date/s and locations of the meeting/s. There were significant internal security barriers being erected in the PA as the TRUMP issue became more controversial and damaging. However s/he continued to try to obtain these.

19 October 2016

COMPANY INTELLIGENCE REPORT 2016/166

FURTHER DETAILS OF SECRET DIALOGUE BETWEEN TRUMP CAMPAIGN TEAM, KREMLIN, AND ASSOCIATED HACKERS IN PRAGUE

Summary

-TRUMP’s representative COHEN accompanied to Prague in August/September 2016 by 3 colleagues for secret discussions with Kremlin representatives and associated operators/hackers

-Agenda included how to process deniable cash payments to operatives; contingency plans for covering up operations; and action in event of a election victory

-Some further details of Russian representatives/operatives involved; Romanian hackers employed; and use of Bulgaria as bolt hole to ‘lie low’

-Anti-CLINTON hackers and other operatives paid by both TRUMP team and Kremlin, but with ultimate loyalty to Head of PA, and his successor/s

Detail

We reported previously (2016/135 and /136) on secret meeting/s held in Prague, Czech Republic in August 2016 between then Republican presidential candidate Donald TRUMP’s representative, Michael COHEN and his interlocutors from the Kremlin working under cover of Russian NGO Rossotrudnichestvo
[REDACTED BY BUZZFEED NEWS] provided further details of these meeting/s and associated anti-CLINTON /Democratic Party operations. COHEN had been accompanied to Prague by 3 colleagues and the timing of the visit was either in the last week of August or the first week of September. One of their main Russian interlocutors was Oleg SOLODUKHIN operating under Rossotrudnichestvo cover. According to [REDACTED BY BUZZFEED NEWS] the agenda comprised questions on how deniable cash payments were to be made to hackers who had worked in Europe under Kremlin direction against the CLINTON campaign and various contingencies for covering up these operations and Moscow’s secret liaison with the TRUMP team more generally.
[REDACTED BY THE MOSCOW PROJECT] were significant players in this operation. In Prague, COHEN agreed contingency plans for various scenarios to protect the operation, but in particular what was to be done in the event that Hillary CLINTON won the presidency. It was important in this event that all cash payments owed were made quickly and discreetly and that cyber and other operators were stood down / able to go effectively to ground to cover their traces. (We reported earlier that the involvement of political operatives Paul MANAFORT and Carter PAGE in the secret TRUMP-Kremlin liaison had been exposed in the media in the run-up to Prague and that damage limitation of these also was discussed by COHEN with the Kremlin representatives).
In terms of practical measures to be taken, it was agreed by the two sides in Prague to stand down various “Romanian hackers” (presumably based in their homeland or neighbouring eastern Europe) and that other operatives should head for a bolt-hole in Plovdiv, Bulgaria where they should “lay low”. On payments, IVANOV’s associate said that the operatives involved had been paid by both TRUMP’s team and the Kremlin, though their orders and ultimate loyalty lay with IVANOV, as Head of the PA and thus ultimately responsible for the operation, and his designated successor/s after he was dismissed by president PUTIN in connection with the anti-CLINTON operation in mid August.
https://themoscowproject.org/dossier/
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:38 am

seemslikeadream » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:51 am wrote:the fact remains that I have had my off topic posts deleted in another thread just because they were off topic and all that was allowed to happen...just because someone did not like the name of my thread........wanted to derail this thread....wanted to shut me up.....show me where a thread of yours was ever treated like that just because someone disagreed with you...it does not matter if I was right or wrong about this subject that's not the point....those dozens of off topic posts were allowed to happen they were not arguing the point....they were made as a distraction


When you make these 30,000 character posts, who are you doing it for? God? What authority are you appealing to? Who do you expect to read through your quote-snip recap of a 28 page thread?

It's me, probably, because I did. More than half of those were dead on topic, you're just salty people find the topic outright funny. The topic being Theresa May's attempt to make this Skirpal business into a pretext worthy of "hitting back" at Russia. This Skirpal business has rather fallen apart, very much in public, so that keeps getting funnier every week. I don't think you're going to be able to stop the laughter anytime soon.

What worries me, though, is your willingness to torpedo actual discussion content by re-posting shit-tons of .jpgs and articles that takes pages to scroll through. Who is really being disruptive, here?

Not that I would ever expect you to change, of course. But I won't be changing much, either. And this is the kind of bullshit I have to push back on. You have to be able to distinguish disdain for your sources from attacks on your person.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:42 am

NO THEY WERE NOT ON TOPIC

they disrupted this thread because they wanted me to change the title ...it went on and on and on

yea that's right its that bullshit that I am going to push back on ......dozens of off topic posts and you are still making excuses for them doing it but me making 2 off topic posts and it's a mortal sin

I know you thoroughly enjoyed the last 2 1/2 years of the constant personal attacks on me .....I can see very well now you are disappointed that they did not force me to leave here.....that was the project wasn't it? so be it

there are plenty of people here that read what I post and missed me when I had to leave for 6 weeks ....not all people here think like you ...
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby American Dream » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:47 am

When I search for "Skripal" the current results on display are Sputnik and RT. Farther back is RFE/RL and TASS but also a few of the more lurid organs of the bourgeois press (in English). Oh, and also the Guardian.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:01 am

of course the mouth pieces ...what would anyone expect but placating for putin


believe what the putin press says? Really?

that's like relying on FauxNews for the truth about trump

as I have said before and will say again .........oh dear!

hey how familiar is this....sounds just like putin's buddy trump doesn't it?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcy8uLjRHPM
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby peartreed » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:25 pm

From my perspective the Skripal incidents and controversy have been primarily a propaganda contest between self-contradictory Russian and British mouthpieces and tabloids taking turns at twisting the facts emerging from the unfortunate deaths and investigations regarding the outcomes of embarrassingly botched espionage activities. Both “superpowers” have exposed their own dirty underwear involved.

Unfortunately, the reactions and commentary on RI have also proven to be a micrcosm of the larger counterintelligence conflict where invested ideologies collide in cruel ridicule of one another and reveal thinly disguised, long-held antagonisms.

I’ve found Slad’s contributions to be consistently sincere and passionate in promoting a progressive perspective and well supported by substantial news coverage. I value her postings and point of view, especially consolidating multiple sources in each summation of a subject. Her opposition here is also predictable in resenting the volume of her offerings and her personal investment in them, notably taking exception with her subjective, expected positions as often opposite their own.

Over time the succession of moderators have also challenged her “Trump dump” cut and paste proclivities as disruptive of discussion, but I’ve found them more welcome than other prolific posters of similarly predictable anti-fascist or pro-POTUS extremism. Even some who attempt “discussion” tend to post daily recaps of their stream-of-consciousness, often-contradictory, self conscious confusion about topics as if we are awaiting their enigmatic and changing opinions on everything posted.

My point is that every participant here can be just as annoying as anyone else, much like the larger political and ideological forces clashing on the world stage, or below it, or in the extreme wings. The joy is finding the fun in the discussion dynamics and the occasional intelligent insight that adds welcome enlightenment to the board exchanges. What is most off-putting is the continuous, cruel, internecine fighting.

Much like the Skripal drama, the conflicts can escalate to the ridiculous if we don’t exercise some tolerance and respect for our differences and our opposing views. Distinguishing distain for sources from personal attacks is difficult when the personal persecution of a singular participant becomes a sanctioned group activity. A leader with a proclivity to bully can set the example others follow, just like Trump.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:43 pm

American Dream » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:47 am wrote:When I search for "Skripal" the current results on display are Sputnik and RT. Farther back is RFE/RL and TASS but also a few of the more lurid organs of the bourgeois press (in English). Oh, and also the Guardian.


Okay, so if this were true (I don't think so), and if nearly the entire Western corporate media has shut up completely about something they were going mega-bugfuck over just a minute earlier, what does it mean? Should I draw the conclusion that not just the purported "Novichok" attack, but the very existence of Skripals and the town of Salisbury, Teresa May, and the Western corporate media's now-silent mega-bugfuck about it, were all made up by Russian state media? Perhaps anyone still interested and posting updates about it (as little bits of garnish amid the truckloads of SALAD) is working for THEM? Or are you making the credible point that the silence of the Western corporate media is a signal of just how full of bullshit their earlier propaganda bugfuck was, and of course they're never going to bother to correct any of it but just let it sediment as "historical record"? What are you saying, good sir?

Actually, peartreed, I find a certain poster's familiar resort to 90-screen repeats of long-ago previously-posted, largely irrelevant, and randomly-curated material, in tangential reaction to imagined slights, to be much worse than merely a childish tantrum. It is actively disruptive to anyone trying to read anything new on this board. It's the reason I use the "foe" function: to avoid the forced scrolling. This poster's stuff is not the worst, there is much worse posted at times by others. But almost never do others use this particular tactic, which amounts to shutting down the targeted thrad. It makes this board very unwelcoming to anyone not used to this shit and remains a valid complaint for moderator action. But why am I writing this shit yet again? It's a reason this board is so quiet, why I am also among those who drop in less frequently.

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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby American Dream » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:03 pm

JackRiddler » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:43 pm wrote:
American Dream » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:47 am wrote:When I search for "Skripal" the current results on display are Sputnik and RT. Farther back is RFE/RL and TASS but also a few of the more lurid organs of the bourgeois press (in English). Oh, and also the Guardian.


Okay, so if this were true (I don't think so), and if nearly the entire Western corporate media has shut up completely about something they were going mega-bugfuck over just a minute earlier, what does it mean? Should I draw the conclusion that not just the purported "Novichok" attack, but the very existence of Skripals and the town of Salisbury, Teresa May, and the Western corporate media's now-silent mega-bugfuck about it, were all made up by Russian state media? Perhaps anyone still interested and posting updates about it (as little bits of garnish amid the truckloads of SALAD) is working for THEM? Or are you making the credible point that the silence of the Western corporate media is a signal of just how full of bullshit their earlier propaganda bugfuck was, and of course they're never going to bother to correct any of it but just let it sediment as "historical record"? What are you saying, good sir?


This was not everything in Google News, I'm sure. This was what displayed at the top of the page under the heading "Current Results" after a general search. I tabbed to the side and found the other results that I indicated. My main point regards the incredibly propagandistic media war around this particular issue. A more thorough survey of news stories should reveal other sourcing but if you're relying on Sputnik and RT, expect Russian State spin.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:44 pm

Golly gee, thanks for the warning. I really needed it because, you see, I am a total moron.

Do you do this for the Western media conglomerates that pretend they are not state media? You know, the ones that feature an uninterrupted stream of national security apparatchiks as sources and experts being fawned upon by anchor yes-bots, not to mention a goodly share of actual mass murderers, and think-tankers posing as academics calling for mass murder? Maybe you should put it in your sig line that something Russian might own a website, caveat lector, etc. Saves time.
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